How It's Portrayed TodayCHEAP SHOT: Philippine Daily Inquirer columnist JUAN MERCADO is having fun with the buzzword INSTIGATE and the term INSTIGATIVE JOURNALISM, which probably works cleverly enough to be a sort of Palace retort to INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALISM as practiced by the likes of Sheila Coronel of PCIJ. However it was Ricky Carandang and Twink Macaraeg of ABSCBN News who are held up by Juan Mercado as examples. It was just a CHEAP SHOT at the media people who were there at that Marine Stand-off at Fort Bonifacio. Who could blame them? This was the third day into Proclamation 1017. The Palace itself had alleged coup d'etat plots by elite military units were afoot. So, on that mysterious Sunday, I don't believe that Ricky Carandang or Twink Macaraeg instigated the following little vignette that I heard and saw live on TV and radio that Sunday afternoon in Fort Bonifacio. Perhaps Mr. Mercado would care to say something sage and wise about this strange and bizarre outburst by a Marine under Col. Ariel Querubin, a certain Lt. Col. Archie Segumalian --
LT. COL. ARCHIE SEGUMALIAN AT FORT BONIFACIO
26 FEBRUARY 2006
Mr. Mercado can sneer only because that initially tense and dramatic situation in fact ended peacefully and anti-climactically. Yet it could easily have turned out quite differently and been a big story instead of a dud.
BONG AUSTERO BOUGHT THE FAIRY TALE ABOUT OUR VAST LEFTIST RIGHTIST COUP CONSPIRACY: That became pretty obvious during Ricky Carandang's one-on-one interview with him tonight. Well, no wonder Mr. Austero had a hissy fit and wrote that famous email dissing anyone going EXTRA-CONSTITUTIONAL last February 26. He probably reads TIME MAGAZAINE, or something. But asked who he thought were part of the Coup Plot Conspiracy, he said sheepishly, "I'm not really at liberty to say!" Asked who he thought were legitimately being hunted down by the Government for participating in the coup, he revealed a tic -- its a heavenward roll of the eyes -- that proclaims he doesn't really have a clue. But he was able to name those who are anti-GMA whom he considers are legitimate and ought not be hunted down-- Enteng Romano for one, Randy David too, he said, and probably Manolo Quezon, whom he says is the most popular blogger in the world, right now. But it was disappointing...Bong Austero is actually for IMPEACHMENT, just like me. In fact, if things get worse I'm pretty sure we'll see Mr. Austero at the barricades too, at least figuratively. I thought he would actually have something interesting to say, some solid manifesto for ideological apathy. Not just another wishy-washy liberal who told Carandang he BELIEVES GMA cheated but is perfectly fine with it. For now, he said. And delivered a promise to take back everything he said in his email, once the Filipino people decide to go against GMA for sure. I've got audio of him, but I'm too, uhmm apathetic to do the work. Where Juan Mercado takes advantage of hindsight to make a cheap shot, Bong Austero seems bothered by it more and more. But both will be on the right side when the time comes, I wager.
If you like reading Juan Mercado and Bong Austero, here at ISKANDALO CAFE you can find them together ONLINE. (Check out the merchandise for sale here: the Nubra Super padded Featherlite adhesive stick on bra).
Manuel L. Quezon III thinks this discussion on Press Freedom is "highly illuminating." No discussion. Just "highly illuminating." I found it "droll." But I guess every blogger keeps nice stock phrases like that for "diplomatic linking." I personally like "strongly persuasive" or even "mildly interesting." But still no definitive essay from MLQ3 himself (and most bloggers now lambasting the Arroyo regime for oppressing their freedom of expression.) on the Danish Cartoons and the fundamental principles of Press Freedom, on why the Liberty of Fleming Rose is the same Liberty as that of Ninez Cacho Olivarez, why Jyllands Postens IS the Daily Tribune.
Some recent posts here at Philippine Commentary on Press Freedom (maybe not highly illuminating, but deeply felt and sympathetic) --
From the Ministry of Truth and Responsible Journalism
Bitter Herbs and Purple Flowers
Danish Publisher Explains Mohammed Cartoons
Democracy Saves Religions From Each Other
Global Jihad Against Insensitive Journalists?
PDI on the Separation of Church and Press
The Responsible Journalism of Conrado de Quiros
As the Sun Sets and Darkness Falls Over My Sad Archipelago
Breaking News --- Standoff Developing at Fort Bonifacio
Stand for Liberty! Stand for the Philippines!
MAX SOLIVEN of the Crony Newspaper The Philippine Star takes the Commission on Human Rights to Task for questioning the "Siege of Bagong Diwa" last year. Max's entire argument seems to be that the Abu Sayyaf bandits like Commander Robot, Global and Kosovo deserved to die anyway, so who cares if maybe the thing was a rubout? Never mind that dead terrorists tell no tales about alleged top brass in cahoots with the enemy, (even selling them bullets!) Hey but what do those Commission on Human Rightists know about it anyway, eh? I mean, Max may be onto something here, how dare those Humans Rights commissioners actually take sworn statements from the actual witnesses to the 2 day siege and "massacre" (CHR's term)?
31 comments:
Thanks, DJB.
I was waiting for a reasonably objective take on the Austero interview by Ricky Carandang.
Hmmm. Never was really impressed with the the austere belchings of Astero.
Am all the more sceptical because his 4-point rally em guys thinggy that MLQ3 thought was great was to me, simply morally austere.
Anyway, enough of pseudo-liberals who believe that BELIEVES GMA cheated but is perfectly fine with it.
Baahhh! Waste of precious ration!
hb, i actually liked and undertood him. i was afraid he might actually threaten my understanding of things with some stunning insight into human nature. disappointing. he didnt. instead i discovered a very expressive human being, who did express what a lot of people feel...i'm fine with that. Plus he's so self-conscious of being a reactionary. Probably a former activist or reformer.
Objective? Me? No! I'm proud to be 60% subjective and only the rest something else...
Oh yeah? Activist? Reformer? Liberal today?
Good Lord! I know people who used to be like that and who think they've become liberal but actually have turned grossly and overbearingly more 'reactionary' than my Republican Flemmish neighbour who believes in the supremacy of the Aryan race.
Bahhh! Am not impressed with people who take to the world stage full of messiahnic purpose and end up saying nothing.
A waste of ration.
I prefer the likes of David Cameron, Tory's new leader, young, bold, and taking the world stage with a purpose and boy, I hope he trumps em Labour hypocrites.
Anyway, thanks for the insight.
A Warm Welcome to LCSIAO!
We have so many wrongs to right
or is it rights to wrong?
I sometimes don't get it right
any more, and often get it wrong.
But folks I guess it is a matter of MORAL STAMINA. Maybe I read too many KOMIKS as a kid, and way too much mythology, but I believe in poetic justice, not the stuff they churn out down at Padre Faura.
If a Decision does not educate and inspire the people, but disappoints and disillusions and demoralizes them, as Estrada vs. Arroyo did, then the Court subverts the Republic at its very heart.
That is why, I believe Erap should be punished for his crimes after being proved guilty of them BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT. But you can't stop there. Anyone guilty of OTHER crimes than plunder, such as dereliction of duty and gross violation of the Constitution, committed in the OUSTER and continuing prosecution of ERAP -- I believe those are STILL prosecutable crimes justiciable under the same Law as is being used to try Erap!
Namely: Davide, Panganiban, Reyes, and GMA, Cardinal Sin (the original conspirators.) Cory will have to turn STATE WITNESS.
Dearest Mr. Bong Austero,
I saw you last night on ANC you read your letter on cable television as is very much famous on the internet and blogging circles.
You were saying that we should give GMA a break and move the country forward.
You were saying that you have forgiven her.
And while people protests on the streets you say that it is not helping the economy.
You say that they are at connivance with these people that you ask to have protection from.
You say that they have not been able to offer any viable alternative.
You say that it is better to have a "Flawed leader than scheming power hungry fools who cannot even stand up for their convictions in the face of an impending arrest".
You say that many replied to your letter and congratulated you for it and even pasted it on their blogs and forwarded them their friends.
You have mentioned the threat of a Coup de’ tat within the ranks of the military and the Left.
All in all as in the way I understand, you mean “ENOUGH” and just live on with our lives as we watch the “FLAWED” President run the country. While saying that Cory et. Al are the bigger problem.
Your letter and its contents are what I’ve always heard with almost all the people I talked to about GMA.
They say that it’s better to keep the status quo than anarchy and let the country suffer an economic downfall.
They say that there’s no viable or a better alternative than GMA. And if there’s one they certainly won’t bet for another Erap or the likes of Noli de Castro. (or even FPJ for that matter on the last election)
Some say to wait for another election of congressmen and vote for the moral ones that would stand up against GMA.
Others would say that they will never trust a communist government or a state run by the military or a junta.
But the worse of them all is that they blame the Filipinos for voting corrupt officials thus having them deserve their plight.
Some reactions would state that even how many People Power that happens in the country there will never be a government that would listen to the people or be morally upright.
Each and everyone becomes as corrupt and hungry for power as everybody are as soon as they sit in office.
They become afraid that the current lifestyle that they are living now would be changed and more and more people will be affected because of the rampant destabilization plots as it would affect the economy.
Some would even compare different Philippine presidents and pinpoint each merits between them.
Yet all the more they are resigned to their conviction that there will never be a good Philippines much more an upright President.
So they decide to get out the country or live their lives and look for greener pastures.
That’s the part where I say “ENOUGH”.
I’ve never lived with my family.
My parents went out of the country with the same reasons.
They said that they want to have a better life for me and for their families.
They even planned on taking me with them.
In their time they saw that the only solution for a better life is outside.
They were poor to begin with.
They were squatters who came from their provinces and worked their way up the employment ladder through hard work and dedication.
As an end result they were able to have a better life.
They earned the merits of their actions and eventually became able to leave the country.
When they had me they thought that I deserve a better life than they had, thus they left me with my aunt and started another life oversees.
All their lives they worked and worked as many odd jobs as possible that they were able to send me to an exclusive school.
They told me to study and when I graduate to work hard as they are so I’d be able to do buy anything I want and when Id have my own family I’d be able to stay with them.
But for all the troubles that they went through they only have one request to make of me.
“Son if you choose to leave the country it is fine by us. But we ask of you not to do so and help our countrymen, we cannot afford to loose another generation of Filipinos at the expense of our country.”
So I did my best.
Though not that good in my academics I was able to graduate from my tertiary education. (In six years though)
In those years I tried searching for reasons and went all over the country to see the real Philippines.
I’ve mingled with criminals, the poorest of the poor the drug addicts the richest of the rich and the academics and mere street philosophers.
In all of them I saw the same bleak realization of a country that doesn’t deserve them or on the contrary made them who they were.
But in times of deep despair, in times of drunkenness and sober meanderings they’ve always hoped for a better life for the country and for their people.
That their children might never experience what they had.
They look at me with wondering eyes and asks me if there’s still hope.
I always tell them “When people stop making their lives better that is when there can never really be any hope.”
So now in these troubled times I read the news and I can’t stop myself from not doing anything.
A President apologized but never showed accountability.
GMA called who?
GMA did what?
I ask myself why we can’t put her to justice.
The point is she did something wrong and a simple sorry wont suffice it.
A simple sorry wont change a corrupted ballot.
A simple sorry wont change a cheated majority.
A simple sorry wont heal a wounded land.
And the more that she puts her back on accountability the more robust the criminals become.
The bolder the corrupt politicians become.
Because they see a society that bows down to a “Flawed leader by virtue of keeping the status-quo.”
Eventually her philandering continued.
By virtue of poverty and paranoia and sheer lack of viable alternatives she stepped on our civil liberties.
She issued E.O. 464
She decreed P.D. 1017
She puts to jail anyone who’s against her and asked them to be arrested without a warrant.
She puts media to a watch list and continues to harass its employees and supporters.
She silences the dissenters and brands them as communists and destabilizers.
And now she wants to change our system of government.
I say “ENOUGH”
Clearly there is no reason for me to stay silent and not do anything.
I don’t want another generation that is conditioned to learned helplessness.
I don’t want another wave of poverty that would throw the best and the brightest out of the country.
I don’t want us to not do anything.
I don’t want the next generation to blame me for another mistake that the older generation did—to remain complacent and just live their lives.
I also want to have a better life for all Filipinos but not like what you say Mr. Austero.
I see a justice system that is not friendly with the masses because of language gap.
I see an educational system that is flawed and backward because of lack of funds.
I see all the basic services like healthcare and access to food and water being eaten whole by graft and corruption.
And I see the taxes I pay going nowhere but to a “Flawed Presidents’ Government”
So let me remind you Mr. Austero that the President is not the Government, the people is the Government.
The President is not the economy, the people is the economy.
And I will never tire reminding you of that.
You have every right to protect your vote.
To not just let anyone take it from you.
You have every right to voice out your opinion and not agree with the governments’ policies and never be put to jail.
You have every right to question a leader’s credibility because you placed him/her in that position of power.
It is even a privilege that they are there.
Because they didn’t earn it, they asked us to give it to them.
So I find it justified to answer your letter.
And share my two cents of the matter.
That while you have presented your alternative of complacency I present my alternative of social responsibility.
That while your answer is “we are prepared to lose our freedoms and our rights just to move this country forward”
My answer is “I am always prepared to defend our freedoms and our rights that we so hardly fought for hundreds of years and move this country forward”
And if it needs be id fight nail and tooth for it.
Unfortunately Mr. Austero it is from the likes of you that we need protection from.
I am not loath to see a series of People Power just so we could bring about real and tangible change.
I am not loath to see hundreds of presidents impeached if they so rightly deserved so.
I am not loath to see this country go down just so to rise up and rebuild itself rightfully.
I’m sorry Mr. Austero but I am not the silent kind that would just watch the events on television.
I also want to earn a living and live a good life with my family and friends but not in this status quo.
Surely not in this status quo of corruption and un-accountability and clear malicious disregard for the law.
And like you I am sick and tired of self scheming agitators that only have regards to what is good for themselves and their economy.
Perhaps that’s the only part where we could agree.
But take note Mr. Austero that I am never afraid to stand up for my convictions furthermore for truth and justice even in the face of any impending arrest.
So I end this letter with a prayer that by doing so I’d give justice to peoples like my family and millions of Filipinos hoping for a better country.
That as faulty as human beings we may find forgiveness in the eyes of God and men, but pledge accountability for our sins.
That we may stand up high and proud that our generation will never fail the future generations…
by the way hi daw po sabi ni ms. marita almoradie i hope you remember her ^_^
"still no definitive essay from MLQ3 himself (and most bloggers now lambasting the Arroyo regime for oppressing their freedom of expression.) on the Danish Cartoons and the fundamental principles of Press Freedom, on why the Liberty of Fleming Rose is the same Liberty as that of Ninez Cacho Olivarez, why Jyllands Postens IS the Daily Tribune.
"
That's because:
a) That cartoon was done in bad taste to anyone who has a religion.There's a double standard, I know, because insulting Catholics is okay with everyone else. No one gets jailed or blown up for that. So, the next reason must be...
b) People are afraid of Muslim reprisal, particularly the fundamentalist terrorist kind.
Hi Dean, hi LCsiao, hi everybody,
Am glad to read Floyd's blow by blow 'rebuttal' of the Austero plea.
As I had said earlier over at MLQ3's blog, wasn't impressed at all with the recommendations made by Austero in his terribly morally austere platform - bahhhh! Total waste of usefl rations!
Too austere when it came to the crunch: the moral issues let alone the legal issues which must be raised against Gloria and her cabal.
I like your last entry Dean. That's how it should be: NO COMPROMISES with the rule of law and NO COMPROMISES with what should be the correct and honorable basis of good governance. Like you, I believe to bring about the needed changes in our society, we must have the MORAL & THE PHYSICAL courage to tackle the Erap/Gloria/poor governance issues without flinching.
By the way, Dean on a sidenote, just want to say "thank you" to LCsiao whose comments in my blog I couldn't acknowledge because as you know, have got a formatting problem (hheheh) and haven't had the courage to re-format my blog according to your instructions. Maybe, I should just send you everything and as you have kindly offered to do - re-format it for me.
XP--There's an awful lot of bad taste that insults not only religion, but intelligence, decency, and every other virtue one can think of. But that is beside the point. Religion is not anything special. It is equal under law with politics, journalism and entertainment. That's the awful truth: despite Separation. Religion has been demoted to the level of every other free human enterprise or endeavour.
Religion is just another form of freedom of expression, on par with performance art or street theatre or blogging.
Organized religion is just another form of freedom of assembly, like a demonstration or a broadcasting station.
Thanks for pointing out why so many local bloggers don't get it!
They think RELIGION is something kind of specially protected form of free speech. It's not!
You know I'm okay with that basic idea, which a great majority of Philippine bloggers find hard to swallow, that's why I've been fuming mad writing about double standards in my blog. Oh well...
Dean,
Just take a look at this typical example of double standards. Even if you're not a Christian, isn't it clear as day to you that something's so foul?
http://restyo.blogspot.com/2006/03/outcry-rises-over-afghan-christian.html
Just a little erratum notice:
"They think religion is something kind of specially protected..."
Please insert "Muslim" religion.
But it was disappointing...Bong Austero is actually for IMPEACHMENT, just like me. In fact, if things get worse I'm pretty sure we'll see Mr. Austero at the barricades too, at least figuratively.
he's for impeachment, eh? well, arroyo's for impeachment too, IIRC. ;)
And to refresh austero's memory, we already did this impeachment thing, bong, pero pinatay ng mga kaalyado ng arroyo admin ito sa House.
but that probably did bother him one bit, even though i believe the guy supported edsa dos.
Not just another wishy-washy liberal who told Carandang he BELIEVES GMA cheated but is perfectly fine with it.
I notice too that he has not called for Arroyo's resignation.
BUT he's for impeachment raw. Probably for the same reasons Arroyo, bunye, sassy lawyer and every other pro-arroyo types wants impeachment too, LOL.
There is a statement from Austero’s letter that has been conveniently missed out by his critics. That is, But you have not been able to offer me any viable alternative. To those who want GMA out now, what is your guarantee that whoever will replace her will not be as corrupt and not a cheater like GMA? What lies ahead after we kick GMA out? Will all be well or will it be worse as we will just be killing each other to get a piece of the spoils?
Yes GMA cheated but ousting her out now will not make things better for us. We have all become moralists that correcting what was wronged has become the primary task. But are we laying the foundation that the wrong act will not be repeated? Aren’t we just correcting a mistake for the sake of correcting it? We don’t search deeper for a solution that the same mistake won’t be repeated again. It happened in 1986, then in 2001. And now you want it to happen again? Let us not just correct the mistake. What is more important is preventing the repeat of the same mistakes. That is how we move forward. Oust Gloria now and we will just go in circles.
to lcsiao:
How sure are you about all those things that you're saying?
It happened in 1986 when we kicked out a dictator. It happened in 2001 when we ousted a corrupt president. Since then, what fundamental and deeply rooted change has happened? Nothing. We are still at the mercy of trapos. Now you want to kick a cheater out of Malacanang? Then what? We go back to our old ways?
We kicked Marcos out and look us now. Imalda is still waltzing while a duaghter is a congresswoman while a son is a governor. We kicked Erap out and look at the senate, his wife and his son. After we kicked GMA, what do we get? Mickey in the senate and Luli as governor? The cycle will just go on and on and on. We will really nevr move forward in that scenario.
If that (no viable alternative crap) were to be the attitude of the public, then why even bother aspire for meaningful change?
I am not in the streets because in the absence of a viable alternative, there will be no meaningful change.
And why even ask that question?
A convenient way out in the absence of an acceptable response.
And, it is now bad to correct a mistake for the sake of it? THAT is precisely the FOUNDATION to ensure that whatever wrongs committed would not go unpunished and eventually repeated. What kind of perverted morality do you stand for?
I don't want to engage in fight here. Just a healthy discussion so let's avoid such words as perverted. And I say we never learned our lessons. Were we able to put Imelda and her cohorts in jail? The last time I checked, Danding is the chairman of SMC. After so many years, has there been a closure of Erap's case? If Erap is so guilty, why did the people elect Loi? If Susan or Manny Pacquiao were to run in a snap election, they may both win. That is so, because as a people we have not matured in choosing our leaders.
What FOUNDATION have we laid when we kicked two presidents? What FOUNDATION do you have to offer once we kick GMA? Once we kick her out now, we will just go back to our old ways.
If we were to stretch Austero's viable alternative argument to its logical conclusion, then we should not even wish to have a change of leadership even during normal times, all because of the fear of the unknown. In effect, why even bother having elections?.
Now that is totally way way off mark. Let us mature as a voter for us to have a truly meaningful change.
Whether the one who will replace the incumbent is better or worse would be a situation that the electorate has to live with because they were responsible for putting in that leader in the first place.
Precisely. But there is no election at this time. It won't happen until next year. Maybe you should start campaigning for congressmen who are anti Gloria so that come 2007, her impeachment will just be a walk in the park. But you also have to make sure that the anti GMA will have a majority in the senate.
However, once the Constitution, which embodies the will of the sovereign, as well as, the basic right of suffrage is violated, any FALSE, CHEATING, USURPING leader cannot lay any moral claim to be protected by the same Constitution which he/she destroyed.
I have no quarrel with that.
There is a statement from Austero’s letter that has been conveniently missed out by his critics. That is, But you have not been able to offer me any viable alternative.
Bullshit. Three step process.
1) Get ARroyo out.
2) Clean up arroyo's COMELEC
3) Hold Special Elections
There are many alternatives to replace arroyo like Mar Roxas, who a US thinktank believes is the most viable alternative, Serge Osmena 3, Bayani Fernando, Ping Lacson, Dick Gordon, Franklin Drilon, Biazon, and Magsaysay are all much better alternatives than GMA.
So it is nonsense to say na there are no credible alternatives to replace Arroyo. In fact, it is the easiest thing in the world to find a replacement for her, since finding a replacement for the most criminally corrupt, unfit, and illegitimate person currently holding public office right now in the Philippines is not exactly a difficult thing to do. I know many officials from the opposition and the administration who are more deserving and qualified of the presidency than her.
We're starting at a low point here, peeps, AND ARROYO IS THAT LOW POINT.
besides, the fact that you're asking us to find a "credible alternative" for her even though you know that she cheated shows that you don't take democracy seriously and has in fact approved of arroyo's methods to steal the elections from her rivals.
It is this same attitude displayed by the arrogant arroyo admin and it's supporters that made GLORIAGATE possible. They needed to cheat raw because their opponents are "not credible alternatives." They cheated "for the good of the country."
And it is the same attitude that Marcos had, kaya he unilaterally decided to stay in power for 20 years because he thinks the anti-Marcos opposition are not "credible alternatives".
Marcos cheated Cory in the 1986 elections precisely because he thought Cory, like the rest, are "not credible" enough. It is that kind of mentality that convinced marcos that he is "indispensable". It is that kind of mentality that made him want to stay in power for 20 years (and more if edsa 1986 failed).
correction: "but that probably did bother him one bit, even though i believe the guy supported edsa dos."
I should have said:
"but the killing of the impeachment probably DIDN'T bother him one bit, even though i believe the guy supported edsa dos, where the senate vote count on the 2nd envelope sparked edsa dos.
To those who want GMA out now, what is your guarantee that whoever will replace her will not be as corrupt and not a cheater like GMA?
I cannot guarantee you 100% na her replacement will be better, but I think there's a 99.99% chance that he or she will, since I believe Arroyo has the most corrupt, abusive and criminally minded admin since marcos, and I think it will be difficult to top that.
GMA is so bad that even erap's a better alternative at this point (which isn't much of a complement to Erap since he was a mediocre president to begin with) where lahat na ng institution ay na-corrupt ni GMA, including the AFP, COMELEC, SC, PNP, DOJ, CONGRESS etc. etc...
And I can guarantee that the next president will have the LEGITIMACY and CREDIBILITY your president don't have, and will have a much better chance at improving and reforming our country... after we clean up the COMELEC and have special elections.
Yes GMA cheated but ousting her out now will not make things better for us. We have all become moralists that correcting what was wronged has become the primary task. But are we laying the foundation that the wrong act will not be repeated? Aren’t we just correcting a mistake for the sake of correcting it?
Again, you're making excuses for election fraud. This is the kind of attitude that continues to allow GMA to get away with her crimes.
And if there are any "foundations that are needed to be laid" or reforms that are needed to be done, GMA is the least credible person to do it. We need somebody else to do that job.
And yes, we need reforms -- sa COMELEC. And we don't need CHA CHA to do that. And I don't trust GMA to do the "COMELEC reforms" herself, since If i recall correctly back in her rizal day speech, one of her promises was to have "clean and honest elections" in 2004, and we all know how that turned out. LOL.
It happened in 1986, then in 2001. And now you want it to happen again? Let us not just correct the mistake. What is more important is preventing the repeat of the same mistakes. That is how we move forward. Oust Gloria now and we will just go in circles.
Pinoy, edsa 1986 was no effin mistake asshole, unlike edsa dos. the filipinos suffered for 20 years under martial rule. tapos nung nag snap election, ninakaw pa ni marcos ang election at na-proclaim siya ng kanyang batasan. it was about effin time democracy was restored to our country.
Edsa 1986 is the only legit people power in my eyes where we ousted an overstaying and illegitimate ruler/dictator who cheated in 1986, but was proclaimed "winner" anyway by his Congress/Batasan.
Bullshit. Three step process.
1) Get ARroyo out.
How? People Power? Nah.
Impeachment. Fine. Go ahead impeach her. Make sure that both chambers of the house will have a majority of anti GMA congressmen and senators. So better start campaigning now. You can't impeach her this year. GMA still has the majority.
Coup? Nah.
What else? Assasinate her? A murderer is worse than a cheater.
So if you really want GMA out, start campaigning for all anti GMA congressional aspirants. Impeaching her in 2007 will be a walk in the park.
And who will replace her? Of course it will be Noli.
2) Clean up arroyo's COMELEC
Can Noli clean up arroyo’s COMELEC. I hope so.
3) Hold Special Elections
That is if Congress will pass a law calling for the holding of a special election. Well, that won’t happen until the opposition gets majority of both chambers.
There are many alternatives to replace arroyo like Mar Roxas, who a US thinktank believes is the most viable alternative, Serge Osmena 3, Bayani Fernando, Ping Lacson, Dick Gordon, Franklin Drilon, Biazon, and Magsaysay are all much better alternatives than GMA.
But that is special elections will happen. Will this congress pass that law? Nah.
So it is nonsense to say na there are no credible alternatives to replace Arroyo. In fact, it is the easiest thing in the world to find a replacement for her, since finding a replacement for the most criminally corrupt, unfit, and illegitimate person currently holding public office right now in the Philippines is not exactly a difficult thing to do. I know many officials from the opposition and the administration who are more deserving and qualified of the presidency than her.
Your view of an alternative is too simplistic. The alternative is not necessarily a person. The alternative can be us, how we conduct ourselves as a people. GMA is the fruit of a rotten system. You take the fruit out, the rotten system will still be there and it will just bear another rotten fruit. It about time that we go beyond personalities in our politics. Otherwise, we will just continue on going back to square one which what has been happening to us.
We're starting at a low point here, peeps, AND ARROYO IS THAT LOW POINT.
As I said previously, GMA is just a fruit of a rotten system. Correct the system and we won’t have problems like Marcos, Erap or GMA.
besides, the fact that you're asking us to find a "credible alternative" for her even though you know that she cheated shows that you don't take democracy seriously and has in fact approved of arroyo's methods to steal the elections from her rivals.
I did not say I approved of arroyo’s methods to steal. We are simply looking for a “credible alternative” and that alternative is not necessarily a person. Give us an alternative that will guarantee that after ousting GMA, we won’t be doing this over again. If none, wait til 2007 and impeach her.
It is this same attitude displayed by the arrogant arroyo admin and it's supporters that made GLORIAGATE possible. They needed to cheat raw because their opponents are "not credible alternatives." They cheated "for the good of the country."
GLORIAGATE happened because of “Hello Garci”. Assuming for the sake of discussion that “Hello Garci” did not come out in public, would you be as agitated as you are now? I doubt it. The HYATT 10 would then still be in government. GMA’s popularity may not have plunged. WE may not have these discussions. But will we be united as a people in the absence of GLORIAGATE? I doubt it. We have always been divided as a people. Unless we all find a common ground, our continued division is what will pull us down. With GLORIAGATE, the division has become more pronounced. It is about time the we find a basis for our unity. United not behind a person but united behind a principle.
I forgot to add that last paragraph...
To those who want GMA out now, what is your guarantee that whoever will replace her will not be as corrupt and not a cheater like GMA?
I cannot guarantee you 100% na her replacement will be better, but I think there's a 99.99% chance that he or she will, since I believe Arroyo has the most corrupt, abusive and criminally minded admin since marcos, and I think it will be difficult to top that. where lahat na ng institution ay na-corrupt ni GMA, including the AFP, COMELEC, SC, PNP, DOJ, CONGRESS etc. etc...
GMA is so bad that even erap's a better alternative at this point (which isn't much of a complement to Erap since he was a mediocre president to begin with)
And I can guarantee that the next president will have the LEGITIMACY and CREDIBILITY your president don't have, and will have a much better chance at improving and reforming our country... after we clean up the COMELEC and have special elections.
You're president NEVER had legitimacy Pinoy, not in 2001, AND not in 2004.
So if you really want GMA out, start campaigning for all anti GMA congressional aspirants. Impeaching her in 2007 will be a walk in the park.
Wish the anti-erap opposition have done that in 2001. at least malinis pa ang COMELEC under erap from 1998 to 2001.
The problem with Arroyo's COMELEC is that it has become a major dagdag bawas department for Arroyo.
And if she used the COMELEC in 2004 to help herself steal the elections, why would she not use it again to help her allies "win" the election or get her constitution "ratified"?
Remember sa "hello garci" tapes, it was not only arroyo voice that was heard or name that was discussed re plans to steal the election, but other Arroyo allies in Congress too.
And when GMA and Garci met with some low level COMELEC officials to bribe them into rigging the elections for the admin, they also talked about helping other admin candidates "win" their elections.
So why would she and her COMELEC want her allies to lose the majority sa House at Senate?
Can Noli clean up arroyo’s COMELEC. I hope so.
if you remove the corrupting influence of arroyo (after she "constructively resigns")? Yes. that's what i wanted all along. duh.
Noli as acting president while elections are being prepared.
3) Hold Special Elections
That is if Congress will pass a law calling for the holding of a special election. Well, that won’t happen until the opposition gets majority of both chambers.
And the opposition won't have a chance as long as Arroyo controls the COMELEC and the SC.
Brilliant!
Gloria did not proclaim herself President; Congress "proclaimed elected" Gloria. Hence, it was Congress that "legitimized" Gloria's cheating.
The Philippines is a "democratic and republican state"; but it's constitution allows the President to be chosen by a mere minority, Ramos (21%); Estrada (40%); Gloria (39%) of votes cast.
Fully 65% want Gloria to quit in 2006; but as early as 2004 a majority of 61% (100% minus 39%) did not want her to be President in the first place, reflecting a difference of only 4% (or 61% in 2004 election minus 65% in 2006 survey against Gloria).
At 3% margin of error, is the recent Pulse Asia survey result showing a difference in preference (during the 2004-2006 time frame) of only 4% against Gloria significant? Really?
In short, not just Gloria, but Congress should bear the blame as well for their negligence in the performance of the duty entrusted to "canvass the votes" which "legitimized" Gloria's presidency-- her cheating.
Congress should be ashamed, apologize and rectify its mistake.
The Power to "Proclaim Elected" carries with it the Power to Review (as in "to appoint" carries also "to remove") for the purpose of either affirming or rescinding that proclamation issued.
The Power to Review the Proclamation can be implied from, or is incidental to, the Power to Proclaim Elected, since Congress is also empowered to promulgate its "rules for the canvassing."
The power to promulgate rules on canvassing carries obviously with it also the power to review the manner of canvassing.
The authority to review the manner in which Congress performed its "determination of the authenticity and due execution" of the certificates of canvass is NOT to be confused with that in a contest "relating to the election, returns and qualifications of the President and Vice-President," which the Constitution confers solely upon the Supreme Court (sitting as PET).
Legalists can argue that Congress is devoid of that authority to Review; but the public interest towards the "closure" to questions concerning Gloria's "legitimacy" as President demands that any doubt raised be resolved (please!) in favor of recognizing that authority.
For no congressional proclamation; no "legitimacy" to Gloria's presidency.
In conducting the review, Congress should bear in mind this time around that fingerprints (like DNA) never lie.
Each certificate (prepared in 7 copies with one already with PET) bears the incontrovertible right hand thumbmarks of the three members of the board of canvassers of each constituency along with their signatures.
Signatures can easily be faked or forged; but thumbmarks do not lie.
Instead of calling Garci, Ong and the rest of the partisan hustlers who were not even present during the actual voting and canvassing in the provincial and municiapl levels, Congress should summon all three members of each board of canvassers (career officers) assigned to all contested constituencies (provincial and city first, municipal boards later).
Let experts (independent and from the COMELEC) verify the authenticty of the certificates and thumbmarks and let the board members attest to the correctness of the words and figures they wrote in the certificates.
Having done that, proceed to compare everything affixed or written in all 6 (since 1 is with PET) copies available for each certificate in front of the board members in public view of those interested to witness the review of the canvassing.
So, let Congress, the ONLY constitutional "legitimizer" (and no other entity), review the "legitimacy" of that proclamation in the manner proposed above so that the Filipino People can look forward to a finality--the "closure"--of the longest "election period" in world electoral history.
After this, ONE TERM, NO RE-ELECTION, NO DYNASTY, and INELIGIBILITY OF PERSONS WHO EVER OCCUPIED ELECTIVE POSITIONS LOCAL AND NATIONAL, INCLUDING BARANGAY, PARTICULARLY THE ELECTIVE INCUMBENTS, FROM THE TIME THE PHILIPPINES BECAME A REPUBLIC IN 04 JULY 1946.
Lord, please, bless the Filipino People with a government without the MARCOSES, ARROYOS, ESTRADAS, DRILONS, ANGARAS, DE VENECIAS, LACSONS and the rest of ALL the TRAPOS who, collectively, destroyed this nation and give the remaining 80 million promdis the opportunity to serve.
The Philippines is a "democratic and republican state"; but it's constitution allows the President to be chosen by a mere minority, Ramos (21%); Estrada (40%); Gloria (39%) of votes cast.
Fully 65% want Gloria to quit in 2006; but as early as 2004 a majority of 61% (100% minus 39%) did not want her to be President in the first place, reflecting a difference of only 4% (or 61% in 2004 election minus 65% in 2006 survey against Gloria).
Not voting for Arroyo in the 2004 is not the same as wanting her to resign or be ousted, domingo.
You wrote this, yes?
GMA was "proclaimed elected" after canvassing by Congress with a vote of roughly 39% of total votes cast, which means that about 61% (100% minus 39%) of the electorate during the 2004 elections did not vote for GMA...
The 65% who now wants her to quit in 2006 is only about 4% over the 61% in 2004 (65% minus 61%) who never wanted her to be President in the first place.
i think you're the one who's been doing a little "spinning" yourself, domingo.
one last thing domingo. it's okay to not trust surveys. but i don't think it's wise to trust COMELEC's numbers on Arroyo's "39%" ehem... "victory" either
TO john marzan
And I can guarantee that the next president will have the LEGITIMACY and CREDIBILITY your president don't have, and will have a much better chance at improving and reforming our country... after we clean up the COMELEC and have special elections.
Yes, the above much, much easier said than done. Give me a clear cut strategy on how you intend to accomplish these and maybe I’ll join you.
Yes GMA cheated but ousting her out now will not make things better for us. We have all become moralists that correcting what was wronged has become the primary task. But are we laying the foundation that the wrong act will not be repeated? Aren’t we just correcting a mistake for the sake of correcting it?
Again, you're making excuses for election fraud. This is the kind of attitude that continues to allow GMA to get away with her crimes.
NO, I am not making excuses for election fraud. I am simply demanding guarantees that we won’t be doing the same mistake again after ousting Gloria.
And if there are any "foundations that are needed to be laid" or reforms that are needed to be done, GMA is the least credible person to do it. We need somebody else to do that job.
I will agree with you on this 100%.
And yes, we need reforms -- sa COMELEC.
Not just COMELEC. Each and everyone of us has to be reformed. WE need to learn how to dialogue amicably. We need to stop voting showbiz personalities. We should all reject TRAPOS. WE should patronize our own. We should give more respect to our flag and our anthem. Should I go on?
Pinoy, edsa 1986 was no effin mistake asshole, unlike edsa dos. the filipinos suffered for 20 years under martial rule. tapos nung nag snap election, ninakaw pa ni marcos ang election at na-proclaim siya ng kanyang batasan. it was about effin time democracy was restored to our country.
Edsa 1986 is the only legit people power in my eyes where we ousted an overstaying and illegitimate ruler/dictator who cheated in 1986, but was proclaimed "winner" anyway by his Congress/Batasan.
Pardon my ignorance but what is effin?
Except for LRT 2 and MRT1, what has changed since 1986, twenty years after EDSA 1?
"one last thing domingo. it's okay to not trust surveys. but i don't think it's wise to trust COMELEC's numbers on Arroyo's "39%" ehem... "victory" either"--John Marzan
Me, trust COMELEC?
My father ran, was cheated and lost, filed an election protest. He was declared winner in that protest but died--disappointed and heartbroken, penniless--before he could even take his seat, owing to a long delay in COMELEC proceedings (appeals and all that)--"the rule of law."
I'm now 63, John Marzan; my father died at the young age of 58. Our family managed to crawl painfully after his death.
So, ehem, after that "sentimental journey," don't expect me to trust COMELEC or any election process or any politician, including "surveys" for that matter.
But please advise if it's still "wise" for me to continue trusting my barber... my baker.
During a discussion, John Marzan, there has to be some "assumptions" to define or accept--even though we do not "trust" or believe the figures or data available--for how can we even get to start the discussion in the first place if we cannot agree to certain basic assumptions.
Pulse Asia survey says it's 65%; COMELEC records say it's 39%.
If I have to waste my time proving to you that the 65% or the 39% figures I cited really are factual, it will get me or the discussion nowhere.
Fact is, based on these "assumptions" from published records (65% and 61% from the 39%), a 4% difference (at 3% margin of error) is INSIGNIFICANT.
A negligible difference you did not expect and was surprised to see, wanting to see instead a result that confirms your belief (your bias?).
Now you want to undervalue or ignore the pertinence of what unexpectedly contradicts that belief--that's your problem, not mine.
Like it or not, John Marzan, you don't need to be mathematician to conclude that it's a negligible, insignificant 4%.
Also, I'm too old to be "doing a little spinning," John Marzan." I'm probably older than your grandfather.
But, to pass the time before I get to be called, I borrow the computer of one of my daughters and, sometimes, get to be "reprimanded" by "wise" guys who think all the others are dumb.
"Blame it on my youth."--Sinatra oldie
Yes GMA cheated but ousting her out now will not make things better for us.
the 65% doesnt agree with you, Pinoy. maybe things will not become better immediately, but it's a first step, and we have reversed a negative, corrupting trend, into something more positive.
We have all become moralists that correcting what was wronged has become the primary task.
i'm not a moralist. All I want is clean elections and a legit president. I think that's what the best interest for the country. And for me to have to explain that to you, shows the kind of BS the arroyo apologists are willing to let arroyo get away with.
But are we laying the foundation that the wrong act will not be repeated? Aren’t we just correcting a mistake for the sake of correcting it?
We are not, as long as GMA is in power. and more "wrong acts" will be committed by this admin and it's COMELEC in the name of preserving GMA when the CHA CHA "referendum" and 2007 "elections" roll in.
NO, I am not making excuses for election fraud. I am simply demanding guarantees that we won’t be doing the same mistake again after ousting Gloria.
sorry, pero wag mo akong isama sa "we made a mistake" mo since i did not support edsa dos, a misuse of people power. people power are best used in removing fake presidents and dictators, like edsa 1986. like the orange revolution in ukraine. like the people power attempt in Belarus recently over election fraud.
as for guarantees, I usually don't do guarantees because it's stupid and I cannot guarantee you 100% na her replacement will be better, but I think there's a 99.99% chance that he or she will, since I believe Arroyo has the most corrupt, abusive and criminally minded admin since marcos, and I think it will be difficult to top that. where lahat na ng institution ay na-corrupt ni GMA, including the AFP, COMELEC, SC, PNP, DOJ, CONGRESS etc. etc...
GMA is so bad that even erap's a better alternative at this point (which isn't much of a complement to Erap since he was a mediocre president to begin with)
Not just COMELEC. Each and everyone of us has to be reformed. WE need to learn how to dialogue amicably. We need to stop voting showbiz personalities. We should all reject TRAPOS. WE should patronize our own. We should give more respect to our flag and our anthem. Should I go on?
and we cannot do this as long as there are people who continue to be an apologist for this administration and continue to make excuses for this corrupt and illegitimate admin.
and we cannot have real reforms if the ones who are doing it are the main rulebreakers in the country. We need somebody credible and legit to do that.
I support John Marzan's stand on all points because they are like mine.
Gloria's leadership is untenable because it is not only legally but also MORALLY flawed - the issue of legitimacy concerning the presidency is a blow to the democratic processes which we all seem to be a proponent of.
The accusations against Gloria affect her legitimacy seriously. The legitimacy issue against her is backed by evidences - and even if these evidences are not considered by legal purists as strong, palpable, damning circumstancial evidences, they are evidences enough for me to support a referendum or a national plebiscite for the presidential contest may be put to a definite closure.
What pro-Arroyo(ists) fail to understand is that a nation cannot continue to remain democratic when the legitimacy of the person at the helm is seriously flawed.
What they furthermore refuse to accept is Gloria's refusal to submit to the only real veritable legal recourse of the nation against her continuing illegal occupation of the presidency: impeachment trial. Somehow they believe that Gloria is right to impede all due processes of the law and that it is right for her to do so.
the 65% doesnt agree with you, Pinoy. maybe things will not become better immediately, but it's a first step, and we have reversed a negative, corrupting trend, into something more positive.
Huh? If they don’t agree with me, how come they are not with you out in the streets?
i'm not a moralist. All I want is clean elections and a legit president. I think that's what the best interest for the country. And for me to have to explain that to you, shows the kind of BS the arroyo apologists are willing to let arroyo get away with.
We all want a clean eleciton. We all want a legitimate leader. Unfortunately, you are too focused and too eager on ousting GMA that any disagreement in your point of view is interpreted to mean a pro cheater, pro corruption etc. Our agreement far far outweigh our small difference, and that difference is simply your rush to oust GMA.
We are not, as long as GMA is in power. and more "wrong acts" will be committed by this admin and it's COMELEC in the name of preserving GMA when the CHA CHA "referendum" and 2007 "elections" roll in.
Why should we allow more “wrong acts” to be committed against us. We must not let down our vigilance simply because we are not calling for her immediate ouster.
sorry, pero wag mo akong isama sa "we made a mistake" mo since i did not support edsa dos, a misuse of people power. people power are best used in removing fake presidents and dictators, like edsa 1986. like the orange revolution in ukraine. like the people power attempt in Belarus recently over election fraud. as for guarantees, I usually don't do guarantees because it's stupid and I cannot guarantee you 100% na her replacement will be better, but I think there's a 99.99% chance that he or she will, since I believe Arroyo has the most corrupt, abusive and criminally minded admin since marcos, and I think it will be difficult to top that. where lahat na ng institution ay na-corrupt ni GMA, including the AFP, COMELEC, SC, PNP, DOJ, CONGRESS etc. etc...
EDSA dos was a collective experience. You may have not supported it but you were part of that collective experience. What’s wrong with guarantees? Simply because you cannot give one it becomes stupid??
GMA is so bad that even erap's a better alternative at this point (which isn't much of a complement to Erap since he was a mediocre president to begin with)
You are too focused on GMA that you cannot see the bigger picture, that is the malady in our society which brought about a problem called GMA.
and we cannot do this as long as there are people who continue to be an apologist for this administration and continue to make excuses for this corrupt and illegitimate admin.
I cannot get you logic here. Who are you referring to when you say apologist? I hope not me. Who is making excuses for corruption and illegitimacy? I hope no me because I am not. I enumerated things that we could reform in ourselves and you say we cannot do those things if there are people who continue to defend GMA? We are not enemies here. We simply differ in tactics.
and we cannot have real reforms if the ones who are doing it are the main rulebreakers in the country. We need somebody credible and legit to do that.
I did not say that GMA will be the one who will be doing the reforming for us. It is us who will do the reforming ourselves.
GMA is our common enemy. I just see her as a very formidable enemy who has the resources to keep herself in power. I won’t deal with her head on for I know she can easily crush me. I will wait for the right time to do what is necessary. Now is not yet the time.
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