tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14974164.post8468265838287357310..comments2023-10-20T21:46:49.945+08:00Comments on Philippine Commentary: Like Limbo, Birth Control Teachings Are NOT Infallible Ex CathedraDeany Bocobohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01443168826029321831noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14974164.post-11877091625205358562008-07-29T01:36:00.000+08:002008-07-29T01:36:00.000+08:00I'm not Catholic - and hence do not accept the inf...I'm not Catholic - and hence do not accept the infallibility doctrine - but let's at least define it as it states. The pope is said to be speaking infallibly if he is defining a position on the doctrine and morals of the Christian Faith while exercising his office as head of the Church. He doesn't have to say "Hey guys, this is infallible! Nyeah! Nyeah!" Thus the communication must be a public letter or statement, addressed to the faithful, intended to define a position of the Church on matters of faith and morals, and done is exercies of his office as pastor of the universal Church. If Humanae Vitae doesn't meet those requirements, I don't know what does.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14974164.post-89259501731376192132008-07-27T21:45:00.000+08:002008-07-27T21:45:00.000+08:00DJBPapa Ratzi was one of the cardinals that dissua...DJB<BR/><BR/>Papa Ratzi was one of the cardinals that dissuaded JP II not to make Humanae Vitae a dogmatic definition, though the idea of the encyclical is indeed infallible.<BR/><BR/>However the Panzerkardinal was challenged on the infallibility issue since towards the end of JP II's papacy, the CDF ruled that an encylical may be infallible even if it weren't defined as such.<BR/><BR/>The liberals challenge was this.How can the CDF define what is infallible or not when it is itself fallible?<BR/><BR/>The same question I throw at you DJB. How can you say something is fallible when you yourself is fallible?<BR/><BR/>I would nail my 95 theses on the door of the Church of Science if you have a claim to infallibility!Ben Vallejohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02963290696331676531noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14974164.post-87753801288494045532008-07-27T21:35:00.000+08:002008-07-27T21:35:00.000+08:00NashmanIf you are referring about women as priests...Nashman<BR/><BR/>If you are referring about women as priests in this equality thingy. The Catholic position that the Church has no authority to ordain women is not listened to by the liberals. The Orthodox have a better explanation which should filter out the mud as you say.<BR/><BR/>See http://www.antiochian.org/midwest/Articles/The_Orthodox_Priest_An_Ikon_Of_Christ.htmBen Vallejohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02963290696331676531noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14974164.post-35319178952672807522008-07-27T18:32:00.000+08:002008-07-27T18:32:00.000+08:00the nashman,THAT, if I am not mistaken has been de...the nashman,<BR/>THAT, if I am not mistaken has been declared an infallible teaching. come to think about it though, married priests and coed seminary dorms could go a long way to changing church policy on contraception!Deany Bocobohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01443168826029321831noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14974164.post-47058073341618156052008-07-27T17:57:00.000+08:002008-07-27T17:57:00.000+08:00I must have missed the memo "Benedict is NOT polem...I must have missed the memo "Benedict is NOT polemical...has clarity...etc..."????? Riiiiight....ask him again why women will never be considered as equals in the Catholic church....It's as clear as mud.The Nashmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14601052480474730831noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14974164.post-61038753589017590592008-07-27T13:58:00.000+08:002008-07-27T13:58:00.000+08:00Ben,I am also a great admirer of Benedict's mind. ...Ben,<BR/>I am also a great admirer of Benedict's mind. Of his heart we must await further events. <BR/><BR/>The reason for this post was to point out that there IS a way out yet for the Church on birth control because the reasoning in Humanae Vitae IS so flawed--mainly on the matter of inconsistency about what is "natural" and what is "artificial". In essence, the encyclical is not actually against contraception per se, but <I>artificial</I> contraception. Thus the distinction between what is natural and what is artificial contraception becomes crucial.<BR/>I believe the encyclical is vulnerable to the distinction made by Paul VI being a false one. <BR/><BR/>But <B>papal</B> infallibility has not yet been accorded to its current teaching on birth control, though there are those who would argue it has been a constant in the "ordinary" magisterium of the bishops. it has not however been "universal" because the majority of the bishops and cardinals on the Papal Commission's wanted to change that teaching.Deany Bocobohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01443168826029321831noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14974164.post-11020688638768928662008-07-27T13:30:00.000+08:002008-07-27T13:30:00.000+08:00Whew! DJB let's disentable your arguments for the ...Whew! DJB let's disentable your arguments for the sake of clarity!<BR/><BR/>Let us say that the premise of Humanae Vitae is right. I do believe it is right under certain circumstances. The chances for biological evolution should be given free reign. Procreation is just one of the things by this could happen.<BR/><BR/>The problem is the logic of the Church is selective. The problem of Humanae Vitae is that it isn't only a matter of faith and morals, but it is a matter of science. In science no Pope can claim infallibility.<BR/><BR/>We are left with the quandary that while Humanae Vitae is prophetic in the moral sense, its premise in the evolutionary biological sense has been falsified.<BR/><BR/>While human sexual intercourse can be considered unitive within marriage, it is not always procreative. When the Church and its celibate hierarchy have come to grips with this clear teaching of the Magisterium of Science (viva Stephen Jay Gould!) then we should see an end to idiotic statements of celibate bishops counselling married couples to self control in bed. This is simply not what evolution has given us!<BR/><BR/>DJB. If our Catholic bishops were like the Anglicans,who are married and in the 2008 Lambeth conference, they have witnessed the difficulties of married life, then Catholic bishops can be seriously listened too. That's why I support the idea that the Church ordain married men. But that is beyond my scope in this reply.<BR/><BR/>That is why the encyclical needs to be revisited. <BR/><BR/>Papal infallibility is a grace to the Church for it safeguards the deposit of faith. Unfortunately this grace can be exercised by Popes who are sinners like DJB and me. Worse you have subalterns to the Pope that will prod him to declare this or that infallible for their political purposes. Towards the end of John Paul II's papacy (when he was almost mentally incapacitated) this was the case. The Panzerkardinal Ratzinger (now Benedict XVI) deserves credit for thwarting some of these moves.<BR/><BR/>The same idea can be applied in the case of Humanae Vitae. So far Benedict has placed the teaching in its positive context and that is charity. I admire and love Benedict for not being polemical and that he uses the encyclical to define a theology of environment. Benedict surprisingly omitted any reference to procreation in "Deus Caritas Est" but he traditionally reiterated Humanae Vitae <BR/><BR/>There is no great fanaticism in Benedict nor can we expect radical change. But I am sure Benedict will place the encyclical in its proper context. <BR/><BR/>About some of the Philippine Catholic Bishops well DJB,they don't compare to Papa Ratzinger, in theology and in charity!Ben Vallejohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02963290696331676531noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14974164.post-15706542089606130772008-07-27T08:22:00.000+08:002008-07-27T08:22:00.000+08:00haha. Pride goeth before the fall...haha. Pride goeth before the fall...Deany Bocobohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01443168826029321831noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14974164.post-70441214562000879102008-07-27T00:23:00.000+08:002008-07-27T00:23:00.000+08:00Is it not very funny Dean? What other organisation...Is it not very funny Dean? What other organisation in the world has a chart detailing when someone is "infallible". <BR/><BR/>I'm a mediocre scientist, but sometimes even I can tell off my boss (brilliant and world renowned that he is) that his theory is crap when it is.<BR/><BR/>Right, who was the infallible bloke who said the solar system was not heliocentric....<BR/><BR/>Oh well, thank god I am not a priest.The Nashmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14601052480474730831noreply@blogger.com