tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14974164.post115383400428439533..comments2023-10-20T21:46:49.945+08:00Comments on Philippine Commentary: I'm With IsraelDeany Bocobohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01443168826029321831noreply@blogger.comBlogger155125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14974164.post-1154513352438553732006-08-02T18:09:00.000+08:002006-08-02T18:09:00.000+08:00I am wondering why no one here in this topic menti...I am wondering why no one here in this topic mention about the military intervention in Kuwait(early 90's) and Kosovo(late 90's).<BR/>And how the international community responded to the crisis.<BR/><BR/><BR/>Hi there Dean, sharing you from what I read from input by Abe and Amadeo:<BR/><BR/>"The Israel Lobby and U.S. Foreign Policy"<BR/> (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Israel_Lobby_and_U.S._Foreign_Policy)<BR/><BR/>by John Mearsheimer <BR/><BR/>and <BR/><BR/>Stephen Walt <BR/><BR/><BR/>The Basis of the U.S.-Israel Alliance<BR/>An Israeli Response to the Mearsheimer-Walt Assault<BR/>by Dr. Dore Gold<BR/><BR/>http://www.jcpa.org/brief/brief005-20.htm <BR/><BR/>from the Jerusalem Center for Public Affairs.<BR/><BR/><BR/>Maraming salamat Abe and Amadeo for the input.<BR/>And to AP too, your chauvinist attitude makes sense. You led me to read von Moltke.taga iloghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03356858237849251912noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14974164.post-1154425155350770052006-08-01T17:39:00.000+08:002006-08-01T17:39:00.000+08:00Hi Dean,I think I'm not the only one who believes ...Hi Dean,<BR/><BR/>I think I'm not the only one who believes that Ariel Sharon would have done things differently:<BR/><BR/>From http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/story/0,,1834637,00.html<BR/><BR/>For Israel, the shooting goes on but so does the weeping <BR/><BR/>The dovish minority understand that their state's survival depends on finding peace across the Middle East <BR/>Ian Black<BR/>Tuesday August 1, 2006<BR/>The Guardian <BR/><BR/>"Israelis who have spent decades fighting for an independent Palestinian state alongside their own are confused and in despair. Israeli doves hate Hizbullah but oppose Olmert's disproportionate response, which looks weak because he is relying only on force. Sharon might have been more pragmatic: swapping prisoners, alive, dead or in bits, is nothing new. And Israel, after all, regularly abducts Palestinians. But when it does so it is called "arresting wanted men".HILLBLOGGERhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05977843513566589811noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14974164.post-1154423936721581222006-08-01T17:18:00.000+08:002006-08-01T17:18:00.000+08:00Know what? If the Mindanaons decide they should ha...Know what? If the Mindanaons decide they should have a republic of their own, why not? Up to them to make their case and win it.HILLBLOGGERhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05977843513566589811noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14974164.post-1154418300274218042006-08-01T15:45:00.000+08:002006-08-01T15:45:00.000+08:00Re: MIndanaoone of the reasons why the so called R...Re: MIndanao<BR/><BR/>one of the reasons why the so called Republic of Mindanao rumors during the time of Ramos remained ruomors was that some negotiator from the peace panel leaked out the information.<BR/><BR/>Of course that would create various violent reactioms not only from other non muslim tribes but to christians as well.<BR/><BR/>Peace panels have came up with various peace talks,and many arrangements, some leaked to the public but never actually materialized.<BR/><BR/>I don't know what will be the result of that so called infromation,if it materialises or not.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14974164.post-1154416655049806132006-08-01T15:17:00.000+08:002006-08-01T15:17:00.000+08:00Was it not that when the Americans defeated Spain,...Was it not that when the Americans defeated Spain,Puerto Rico,Guam and The Philippines was part of the package?<BR/><BR/>I know they have to pay for it in the treaty of Paris.<BR/><BR/>And whether on not this Willima Grayson fellow shot a Filipino soldier in its teritory in San Juam or Manila started the Filipino-American war,this begs me again to ask which trumps what,Teritory or sovereignty. <BR/><BR/>The trade with chinese may be a valid reason for others especially,navy ships have reacched as far as Hong Kong then.<BR/><BR/>I believe Filipnos have already been to the US.Rizalist,Has Rizal been to the US?<BR/>Of course We have been trading with Mexico and maybe California,for all we know The US might have gotten the idea of the land called the Philippines based from Filipino first hand information as a resuklt of the Manila Acapulco trades.<BR/><BR/>As to why they came,I don't know maybe they wanted more Manila hemp (abaca)which was a major export of the Philippines for more than half of a century.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14974164.post-1154415508367620932006-08-01T14:58:00.000+08:002006-08-01T14:58:00.000+08:00JuanM, I just heard Amalim Centi Tillah (chairman ...JuanM, <BR/><BR/>I just heard Amalim Centi Tillah (chairman of the Bangsa Moro People's NATIONAL Congress) tell Tony Velasquez the other night something very different. He completely disagrees with you! Mindanao is the Bangsa Moro people's homeland, and they are about to strike a deal with GMA that large parts of Mindanao become their ancestral domain. That is why the Lumads oppose the coming arrangements. This could create a new Lebanon/Palestine/Israel problem down there. They claim, I think with historical correctness(!) that Mindanao was not sold to America by the Spaniards in the Treaty of Paris and the US just "gerrymandered" or annexed Mindanao as part of "the Philippines" in 1946!<BR/><BR/>According to Abe and MB's arguments we have to give it back to them to achieve peace. Do you agree with that?Deany Bocobohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01443168826029321831noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14974164.post-1154415254413081312006-08-01T14:54:00.000+08:002006-08-01T14:54:00.000+08:00AP--Why did America come to the Philippines? A ve...AP--Why did America come to the Philippines? A very excellent question over which I have pondered long and hard and about which it might be interesting to start a new thread soon. I will present a comprehensive theory about it, but for now it would seem that the establishment of democracy was certainly a big part of it, as evidenced by the quick establishment (right after the war) of what would seem to be a rather different kind of conquered colony than European nations established in other places: we had popular democratic elections as early as 1905 or 1906; universal public education was established throughout the pacified portions of the archipelago; remember that the Philippines is the first Democracy in Asia (June 12, 1898), and even after the First Republic lost its sovereignty during the Phiilippine American War, the conditions under colonial rule undoubtedly were better than had Aguinaldo come to power. <BR/><BR/>But the very interesting question still remains: why did they come and then establish a democracy? <BR/><BR/>I think it had something deeply emotional to do with what happened to the "redskins" -- the indios of America, and the manumission of the Negro race. Perhaps it was America EVOLVING, a process of corrigibility that was the result of McKinley reflecting upon the entire American experience up to his time, and the impending fin de seicle (end of the century). NO matter how some now deride the idea of "Benevolent Assimilation" it was a real and earnest idea in William Howard Taft, the first civilian governor general of the Philippines, later President of the United States and Supreme Court Chief Justice until 1928(?). It was an idea that he tried his best to fulfill as shown in everything done from when the war ended (1902) till the elections of 1912. After 1912, when Woodrow Wilson defeated Taft and Theodore Roosevelt in that pivotal elections, lots of things changed...<BR/><BR/>Let's put it to the thread...<BR/><BR/>WHY DID AMERICA COME TO THE PHILIPPINES?Deany Bocobohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01443168826029321831noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14974164.post-1154403807171516852006-08-01T11:43:00.000+08:002006-08-01T11:43:00.000+08:00Dean, you are probably referring to argumentum ad ...Dean, you are probably referring to <I>argumentum ad verecundiam </I> (appeal to authority) which in remedial law could be the equivalent of expert testimony. You will note though that, even if I buy your argument that citing authority is a valid fallacy, the value of the citation is not so much the personalities of the authors who wrote it as the “historical facts” presented. Are you denying or do you have contrary authorities refuting those historical facts, as unearthed by the scholarship of the authors, or you are more comfortable appealing to biblical authorities? (btw, honestly, I’m not certain at all if the proclamation of the state of Israel in 1948 was based on the Bible. I’ll be glad to know if you have any authority to the contrary.)<BR/><BR/>I cited the Harvard study in support of my rhetorical question that <B>HB</B> has quoted above to the effect that the important and key parties to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict (i.e., Israel as well as U.S. supposedly as a peace broker) may not really be sincere in recognizing the aspiration of the Palestinian people for nationhood and for a normally functioning state capable of invoking the right to self-defense just like the state of Israel. <BR/> <BR/>Another example: America’s motive for colonizing the Philippines (which <B>AP</B> is asking about) was to make the Philippines a base for trade with China (although the <I>talking points</I> at that time was “to civilize and Chistianize the (Filipinos)” and to fulfill “the white man’s burden” (<B>amadeo</B>, this is the relevance of A. Roy’s essay in the light of Dubya’s PRESENT doctrine to spread and promote democracy and liberty in Iraq and the Middle East, and to “modernize” those countries supposedly still stuck with their ancient glories). <BR/><BR/>Dean, America’s imperialist motivation and the above quote from President McKinley and Rudyard Kipling are not disputed today. I’m not sure if reference to these historical facts if cited by any scholar or in Wikipedia will be considered as <I>argumentum ad verecundiam</I>.Abe N. Margallohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01129414018730906910noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14974164.post-1154400780803946542006-08-01T10:53:00.000+08:002006-08-01T10:53:00.000+08:00I’d like to end my contribution to this discussion...I’d like to end my contribution to this discussion with this.<BR/><BR/>If Ms. A. Roy has earned the name of anti-American even from a couple of leftist sources, then I say she has to defend and acquit herself from this label. For as far as my puny intelligence can discern in the domestic context, this is what those sources are implying at worst:<BR/><BR/>“an irrational phenomenon that configures the United States and the American way of life as threatening at their core, or having sentiment hostile to United States that reflects a truly prejudiced belief system.” (Wikipedia – Anti-American sentiment)<BR/><BR/><BR/>But anyway, what is apropos under this current discussion is the issue of Lebanon, Hezbollah, Palestine, and Israel in light of the present conflicts. IMHO, I find no ancillary relevance for bringing in a harsh indictment of the US and what it stands for under that context.<BR/><BR/>Re the statements attributed to Messrs.Stephen M. Walt and John J. Mearsheimer, even granting their complete veracity and credibility, they are still part of older history and leave out recent developments, which clearly are more relevant and constructive in the long journey toward the path of peace and co-existence.<BR/><BR/>BTW, I made the advertent qualification above because when this controversial study came out, it raised quite a stir here in the US and a little Googling will reveal the extent of concerns for its worrisome conclusions.<BR/><BR/>If an acceptable premise to a peaceful resolution is Israel's public pronouncement and acknowledgment of a separate and distinct Palestinian state, with the occupied or disputed lands in the Gaza Strip and The West Bank as the core Palestinian territory, then these are the clearly public developments:<BR/><BR/>Israel unilaterally withdrew from Gaza in 2005.<BR/>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel%27s_unilateral_disengagement_plan<BR/><BR/>As late as January 2006, Israel had started to evacuate from the West Bank.<BR/>http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=48348<BR/><BR/>I am not sure how much of the West Bank Israel is willing part with, though I have read as much as 90%, where from a low of 1.2 to a high of 2.4 Palestinians live.<BR/><BR/>Granted that Israel has not formally announced its acceptance of a Palestinian state, but polls show that a majority of Israelis have come to accept the likelihood of a Palestinian state. BTW, the US current administration has publicly given its support for a separate Palestinian state.<BR/><BR/>And in 2003, as much as 73% of Israelis have favored a complete or partial withdrawal from the West Bank, in pursuit of that elusive peace.<BR/><BR/>To reiterate, that study detailing the Israel Lobby in the US appeared in the sights of many sources, both pro and con. Again, a little Googling will suffice. I confess many sources debunking some or many of the study's findings come from those on the right. But then ideology plays such a crucial and sticky role in the political life of any nation. In this fractious world we live in, it can be argued that people may find your patent ideology as inextricably beclouding your clear perception of certain issues.<BR/> <BR/>So I have chosen to recommend a not so popular site, one may even say it is obscure and unscholarly, but anyway take a look and pick your sides. No ad hominem or personal skirmishes, just rebuttals on referenced statements.<BR/><BR/>http://www.themiddleeastnow.com/harvardstudyAmadeohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00040096079637569742noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14974164.post-1154399115415135852006-08-01T10:25:00.000+08:002006-08-01T10:25:00.000+08:00As far as what I know the spanish amercican war s...As far as what I know the spanish amercican war started in Havana Cuba and since The Philippines was a colony of Spain,the war moved here.<BR/><BR/>It sems that Cuba has a lot to do with America becoming a super power,from the spanish american war to the Cuban missile crisis.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14974164.post-1154391239666776052006-08-01T08:13:00.000+08:002006-08-01T08:13:00.000+08:00Blaming the sins of the ancestors...In some decisi...Blaming the sins of the ancestors...<BR/><BR/>In some decisions of cases I have heard or read about,the heirs of the guilty party compensates the heirs of the victim, that for me is baloney. But as they say duralex rolex pirex or what ever.<BR/><BR/>Blaming the ancestors..hate crimes hate groups like the skinheads,the neo nazis, the Klu Klux Klan....<BR/><BR/>Started from blaming the ancestors,but later turned into street thugs emulating cats and dogs.<BR/>Unfortunately most of these groups are now piled up in America.<BR/><BR/>But Even in the Pinas,The ubusan ng lahi family feuds,even if the root cause or the two patriarchs are long dead,the descendants will somehow continue the feud.<BR/><BR/>The common denominator between,the antiseminists,racists,family feuds<BR/><BR/>is not religion,not race but HATRED<BR/><BR/>hatred,with having the root cause of ignorance.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14974164.post-1154390981996900682006-08-01T08:09:00.000+08:002006-08-01T08:09:00.000+08:00ap--your bring up a good point about history. as a...ap--your bring up a good point about history. as awful as some episodes in history are, we in the present often tend to ignore how much more awful history MIGHT have been had those episodes not occurred. An example close to heart is the Philippine American War. Yes it was a colonial conquest and many injustices did occur. But what actually happened is never compared to a realistic assessment of what COULD have happened instead. The fact that Bonifacio was killed by Aguinaldo, for example, could easily have been the basis for civil war between Cavitenos and the Manilenos, and wars among the various tribes that make up the Philippines today are never thought possible BECAUSE we already are one country today and a war among Kapampangans and Tagalogs is never considered as a real possibility if America did not plant democracy here. <BR/><BR/>For all we know, we could have been the Lebanon of Asia with a large Muslim population in the south supported by Indonesia and Malaysia, and a large Christian majority up north. <BR/><BR/>In fact, we are probably more like Israel in the region in that respect, with only the fact of being an archipelago saving us from a more intense friction with our neighbors. <BR/><BR/>But I put it to the thread: what about Mindanao? Whose "homeland" is it now? Should the Philippines "return" Mindanao to the Bangsa Moro People who stole it from the Lumads who took it from the aborigines?Deany Bocobohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01443168826029321831noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14974164.post-1154387247352739862006-08-01T07:07:00.000+08:002006-08-01T07:07:00.000+08:00Abe,I guess I could also Cut-N-Paste something fro...Abe,<BR/>I guess I could also Cut-N-Paste something from those who disagree with the "Harvard study" that you posted. But here I think you are appealing to the logical fallacy of "arguing from authority". At many email groups, what usually happens is that opposing views are fought by proxy, (just as Iran-Hezbollah and US-Israel at the moment), with the various sides quoting form newspapers, online websites, famous writers, etc that support their views. Nothing wrong with that per se, but I won't be drawn into that. You have to state, please, what exactly about the study YOU think is remarkable, logical or important. Otherwise, I have to argue with an endless array of folks that aren't really present. You must not "hide" behind those folks. You must present the argument yourself otherwise it is "argumentum autoritatem." (or something Latin like that).<BR/><BR/>The problem for all sides with "history" is revealed in the question now arising in America over Negro slavery? <BR/><BR/>Are the descendants of slave-owners culpable for their ancestors' practice of slavery. And should the descendants of slaves now "benefit" from a retroactive punishment of their ancestors owners?<BR/><BR/>If my grandfather murdered someone's grandfather, what is my culpability and responsibility today other than to admit it. What if I am the one that TODAY is under the threat of being murdered. Have I lost my right to self-defense because my grandfather was a murderer? <BR/><BR/>Who were we descended from, Cain or Abel?Deany Bocobohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01443168826029321831noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14974164.post-1154369258512297972006-08-01T02:07:00.000+08:002006-08-01T02:07:00.000+08:00Here's one bit of relevant history that makes our ...Here's one bit of relevant history that makes our dear friend DJB sound more Zionist than the Zion.<BR/><BR/>I've taken it from a Harvard Study in March 2006 titled “The Israel Lobby and U.S. Foreign Policy” by Harvard scholar Stephen M. Walt and University of Chicago Professor John J. Mearsheimer, which reads as follows:<BR/><BR/>The fact that the creation of Israel entailed a moral crime against the Palestinian people was well understood by Israel’s leaders. As Ben-Gurion [the first prime minister of Israel] told Nahum Goldmann, president of the World Jewish Congress, “If I were an Arab leader I would never make terms with Israel. That is natural: we have taken their country. . . . We come from Israel, but two thousand years ago, and what is that to them? There has been anti-Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They only see one thing: we have come here and stolen their country. Why should they accept that?” Since then, Israeli leaders have repeatedly sought to deny the Palestinians’ national ambitions. Prime Minister Golda Meir famously remarked that “there was no such thing as a Palestinian,” and even Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin, who signed the 1993 Oslo Accords, nonetheless opposed creating a full-fledged Palestinian state. Pressure from extremist violence and the growing Palestinian population has forced subsequent Israeli leaders to disengage from some of the occupied territories and to explore territorial compromise, but no Israeli government has been willing to offer the Palestinians a viable state of their own. Even Prime Minister Ehud Barak’s purportedly generous offer at Camp David in July 2000 would only have given the Palestinians a disarmed and dismembered set of “Bantustans” under de facto Israeli control.Abe N. Margallohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01129414018730906910noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14974164.post-1154363937415666372006-08-01T00:38:00.000+08:002006-08-01T00:38:00.000+08:00Dean, your defence of Bush does you great credit. ...Dean, your defence of Bush does you great credit. Perhaps, had Bush taken you on to work on his PR, he would have succeeded in putting him in a better light and I say this without a tinge of sarcasm. Unfortunately, the harm's been done. They say, time heals so, let the best test is when all of the Iraqi nation finally forgives Bush. I'm confident, we will see whether they have forgiven him or not through time. <BR/><BR/>Historians write accounts of various world events and the leaders that made those events happen as accurately as they can. While there's bound to be certain revisions of some episodes in world history willfully or not by historians, on the whole, genuine historians write these accounts accurately. So I believe that Bush and his legacy, contrary to what many people believe, is bound to suffer history's judgement of him and of his Iraq invasion. He will be remembered not for his good intention to "export democracy" (the road to hell is paved with good intentions) to Iraq but the lies, the ommissions and the half truths which he professed to the world to make his invasion a reality. I see it happening to Tony Blair now. Why should it be any different for Bush?<BR/><BR/>Anyway, I'd rather not delve in Bush, the president and the persona at this point on the invasion of Iraq for the simple reason that focusing on Bush, his competence or incompetence, his success or failing and other matters pertaining to his invasion of Iraq will do this Lebanon thread great disservice.<BR/><BR/>As to Abe's question, I don't quite see how his rationale is, as you put it, an invitation to "the destruction of both Israel and America as punishment for being the true historical root cause of the problem".HILLBLOGGERhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05977843513566589811noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14974164.post-1154360836109829402006-07-31T23:47:00.000+08:002006-07-31T23:47:00.000+08:00Dean,You might want to look at this blog:http://ma...Dean,<BR/><BR/>You might want to look at this blog:<BR/><BR/>http://mazenkerblog.blogspot.com/<BR/><BR/>It is an ordinary blog and I don't believe for a minute that it has a political base or that it's either for or anti-Israel. But one of the comments in that blog caught my eye, because I've read the same statement that the commenter left somewhere but can't remember where exactly. However, I remember the quote was attributed to a German during WWII.HILLBLOGGERhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05977843513566589811noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14974164.post-1154360594639296692006-07-31T23:43:00.000+08:002006-07-31T23:43:00.000+08:00Lebanesa,I have no special connections or special ...Lebanesa,<BR/>I have no special connections or special expertise on the matter. But I think the Philippines faces the same problems as Lebanon. And the whole world is such that we cannot run away from the problems in it without risking being overrun by them. Perhaps you can share what you know here with us that we cannot get from the usual sources online, tv, and newspapers. I am prepared to be convinced by reason and information and good will, which I hope you bring with your comment. Welcome to Philippine Commentary Lebanesa.Deany Bocobohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01443168826029321831noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14974164.post-1154360238884285542006-07-31T23:37:00.000+08:002006-07-31T23:37:00.000+08:00AP--You are gentleman and soldier. The "Angelo de ...AP--You are gentleman and soldier. <BR/><BR/>The "Angelo de la Cruz Syndrome" will become an important topic of discussion very soon, I would think, but I shall have to sleep on your comments a bit before replying.Deany Bocobohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01443168826029321831noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14974164.post-1154359912729592262006-07-31T23:31:00.000+08:002006-07-31T23:31:00.000+08:00Anna,"So, is the claim by President Bush that the ...Anna,<BR/><BR/>"So, is the claim by President Bush that the root cause of the problem is Hezbollah borne by historical facts?"<BR/><BR/>I am certain that we can find many historical facts to support Pres. Bush's statement. I am equally certain that we can find many historical facts to contradict him, too. The problem of course is that "history" stretches all the way back, figuratively (or perhaps literally) speaking to Cain and Abel,(and the lesser known Seth) or perhaps even farther back to some undocumented quarrel between Adam and Eve and the serpent. Even if we don't go back that far, it would certainly seem that certain Italians are actually to blame for all this when they destroyed the Second Temple, created the Jewish Diaspora established the first homeland for the present day Palestinians at the expense of the ancient Israelites. Of course, if we start "history" at various other places along the way, say the Ottoman Empire's founding, or 1948, one gets totally different results about who or what is the "root cause."<BR/><BR/>President Bush was almost certainly not thinking in terms of such past "historical facts" which was Abe's framing of his statement. He was, imo, using "root cause" in the more immediate sense of "which factor in this complex situation is the key obstacle to peace and prosperity for everyone?" I think he is a practical kind of president that wants to solve present problems by "taking the bull by the horns" instead of just using the bullhorn of the Presidency to delay action and achieve little of lasting value. His decision to topple Saddam Hussein in Iraq for example, may be derided by many now because of what Al Qaeda has done to foment conflict between Sunni and Shia there. But if and when Iraq becomes a stable democracy, and I doubt that America can afford to not achieve that goal) it will be a lasting contribution to peace and stability in that region, just as the rehabilitation and forced democratizaton of a conquered Nazi Germany and Militarist Japan became the cornerstones of peace and prosperity in both Europe and Asia for the entire 20th century and beyond As I have said before, that victory was attained at the cost of over SIXTY MILLION dead, most of them "innocent civilians." Now THERE is an historical fact. Was it worth it? Did America have a right to invade Japan and drop the Bomb on her when all Emperor Tojo did initially was "kidnap" two of her "soldiers" (Pearl Harbor and Manila on Dec 7 & 8 1941?) <BR/><BR/>These are the logical dilemmas that arise when we use what MB famously called, "our choice of what narratives to believe" exclusively to decide what the correct moral position to take really is. <BR/><BR/>It is perhaps in that light that we ought to see the President's statement. I am sure he is aware of what those more remote "root causes" are. But I think he believes that the if you start "history" today, if you want to "make" history and not just survive it, you really do have to decide which factor is the most impt to deal with so that lasting progress can be made. He therefore probably believes that the dismantling of Hezbollah is far MORE LIKELY to lead to that hoped for peace than as opposed to the destruction of the state of Israel. I'm with GWB on that, because even if I accept the historical facts of Abe, indulging the logical conclusion he seems to invite--the destruction of both Israel and America as punishment for being the true historical root cause of the problem--would lead to a history far more as if Hitler and Tojo had won, or in this, Bashir, Ahmadinejad and Al Qaeda.Deany Bocobohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01443168826029321831noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14974164.post-1154359270165241422006-07-31T23:21:00.000+08:002006-07-31T23:21:00.000+08:00Dean,Here's a news headline from The Times of UK:T...Dean,<BR/><BR/>Here's a news headline from The Times of UK:<BR/><BR/>The Times July 31, 2006 <BR/><BR/><BR/>France proposes UN peace plan as Lebanon issues call for help<BR/>From James Bone in New York<BR/> <BR/> <BR/> <BR/>POTENTIAL contributors to a multinational force in Lebanon meet at UN headquarters in New York today with a French peace plan already on the table. <BR/>Up to thirty nations will attend today’s meeting of troop-contributors. They will include Britain and the United States, even though neither country plans to send ground forces to Lebanon. <BR/><BR/> <BR/> <BR/>France, considered a candidate to lead the planned force, circulated a draft UN resolution at the weekend calling for an immediate halt to the fighting and the creation of a militia-free buffer zone in south Lebanon. <BR/><BR/>France’s UN ambassador also urged Kofi Annan, the UN Secretary-General, to start a round of shuttle diplomacy aimed at securing agreement to the deployment of a multinational force. <BR/><BR/>For more, see http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-2292912,00.html<BR/><BR/>Austria is thinking of sending a small contigent of some 10 to 15,000 troops with peacekeeping force.<BR/><BR/>I hope Israel and their military benefactors, the United States, will agree. Unfortunately, UK credibility is in tatters because Tony Blair is now considered, even by members of his own Labour Party, as a mere appendage of Bush's anatomy. He faces a looming battle with his own government for having once more kept the truth from the British, i.e., US bomb carrying flights to and from Scotland's airport.<BR/><BR/>The French proposed UN resolution, if it's not scuttled should pave the way for Lebanon and Israel to seek a way to stabilize their borders.HILLBLOGGERhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05977843513566589811noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14974164.post-1154358074358920662006-07-31T23:01:00.000+08:002006-07-31T23:01:00.000+08:00DeanI'm interested in knowing where you get this o...Dean<BR/>I'm interested in knowing where you get this odd info about Hezbollah and your ideas about Lebanon.<BR/>Do you have some connection to the situation that we should all know about?<BR/>How come someone so far from the area 'knows' so much more than those of us with friends and relations in the area who visit regularly and have daily contact?<BR/>What is your interest and why so heated pro-Israel and anti-Lebanon?lebanesahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07988892248196307424noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14974164.post-1154355277960454582006-07-31T22:14:00.000+08:002006-07-31T22:14:00.000+08:00Hello Dean, Abe, Bystander...This is a re-post of ...Hello Dean, Abe, Bystander...<BR/><BR/>This is a re-post of comments I made in Abe's blog.<BR/><BR/>Abe posed a few questions which, to me, require straightforward answers because they could provide the genuine ground for potential negotiations.<BR/><BR/>Of particular note is, "So, is the claim by President Bush that the root cause of the problem is Hezbollah borne by historical facts?" Sadly, this question might be waylaid because I doubt very much that Pres Bush is willing to go back into history to try to settle disputes today. It seems Bush lives for today. <BR/><BR/>Abe's other questions, which also smack of good faith, require truthful answers. The answers will define the degree of seriousness (or lack thereof) with which people, powers, leaders regard the Hezbollah-Israeli conflict and resolving said conflict. <BR/><BR/>Fundamentally, and as Dean said, it all boils down to people's moral consistency. So, I suggest that Israel or the United States or both should really answer Abe's questions as straightforwardly and as truthfully as they can:<BR/><BR/>"Or isn’t the fundamental dilemma really about finding an honest answer to the following: Is Israel, as well as the United States and the whole world, willing to end the holocaust of the Palestinian people and recognize their right to self-determination and their dream of nationhood?"HILLBLOGGERhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05977843513566589811noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14974164.post-1154351302590971272006-07-31T21:08:00.000+08:002006-07-31T21:08:00.000+08:00Hezbollah vs. Israel -- an ugly war between two te...Hezbollah vs. Israel -- an ugly war between two terrorists! I pity the innocent Lebanese and Jews who are caught in the crossfire..the bystanderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08518067503462566871noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14974164.post-1154350527340621962006-07-31T20:55:00.000+08:002006-07-31T20:55:00.000+08:00To all the folks on the Philippine Commentary Comm...To all the folks on the Philippine Commentary Comment Thread, I just got a phone call from Anna de Brux (the Hillblogger) all the way from Europe offering apologies to everyone on the thread for the recent unpleasantries. She mentions in particular that she would never knowingly insult a fellow Marine, but its my fault for not mentioning the common grounds and grand ideals for which she and AP have both stood and fought, a privilege I myself have not had in uniform. For everyone's information I hope American Painter won't mind my mentioning his own long association with the Philippines and Filipinos, as a husband, father, defender and ally of them. (I hope I got that right from previous conversations AP).<BR/><BR/>By the way, I've not always been filled with such equanimity about "flame wars" on blogs, being far more guilty than either of them of losing my cool in egroups and blogs. Everyone here has made blogging a personally enriching experience for me. Without others to agree or disagree with me, it would be just like writing for the main stream media again -- a generally sterile, one-way experience that does not test or sharpen our wits or morals as effectively as this highly interactive medium does. <BR/><BR/>Blogging is a whestone for our thoughts and feelings and I know it will continue to make us all better persons for the human community that is rushing headlong into a hive of connectedness that we cannot escape from. Therefore we should cherish it. <BR/><BR/>AP--Regarding Angelo de la Cruz incident, perhaps this will be a chance for the Philippines to redeem something that was lost then. But let us await the opinions of others.Deany Bocobohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01443168826029321831noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14974164.post-1154347952895601422006-07-31T20:12:00.000+08:002006-07-31T20:12:00.000+08:00Thanks my friends! Now we can go back to worrying ...Thanks my friends! Now we can go back to worrying about Israel, the Hizbollah, Iran, Syria and the real war that's afoot! I really appreciate the truce after that last minute salvo from each of you. This war is taking its toll on all of us. Soon we shall be faced with whether the Philippines ought to send a humanitarian force of doctors and nurses into the combat zone if and when the badly needed international peacekeeping force is formed. And then there are the excellent points of discussion that Abe Margallo has most eloquently proposed and lain the predicate for. (See the comment above). <BR/><BR/>And perhaps just a moment of silence for the innocents at Qana and Haifa, and wherever war has not been averted.Deany Bocobohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01443168826029321831noreply@blogger.com