tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14974164.post113935721441190451..comments2023-10-20T21:46:49.945+08:00Comments on Philippine Commentary: Angst of the VFA AbrogationistsDeany Bocobohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01443168826029321831noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14974164.post-1166444706216130792006-12-18T20:25:00.000+08:002006-12-18T20:25:00.000+08:00I have read in an editorial in the Business Mirror...I have read in an editorial in the Business Mirror that the VFA may be a non-binding treaty as it was not ratified by the US Senate.<BR/><BR/>Is it true? <BR/><BR/>I hate asking stupid questions but I do hate being clueless more.shirota strainhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00885638249652337990noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14974164.post-1166166733589813942006-12-15T15:12:00.000+08:002006-12-15T15:12:00.000+08:00Try getting a hold of Fr. Shay Cullen of PREDA.ORG...Try getting a hold of Fr. Shay Cullen of PREDA.ORG (you can find him online.) He might know some such unfortunate soul.Deany Bocobohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01443168826029321831noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14974164.post-1166166361530580302006-12-15T15:06:00.000+08:002006-12-15T15:06:00.000+08:00looking for American who served time in philippine...looking for American who served time in philippine prison to talk to reporter about their experience. it's for story about what lance cpl smith could be facing if his appeal is denied. know of anyone?Darren, Jennifer, Madalin, Maximilianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06646186735174652556noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14974164.post-1139715283566318372006-02-12T11:34:00.000+08:002006-02-12T11:34:00.000+08:00Justice delayed is justice denied!Justice hurried ...Justice delayed is justice denied!<BR/>Justice hurried is justice buried!Deany Bocobohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01443168826029321831noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14974164.post-1139654925702604012006-02-11T18:48:00.000+08:002006-02-11T18:48:00.000+08:00Well, I'm pretty sure rapists get caught and punis...Well, I'm pretty sure rapists get caught and punished real good in the United States a lot more than here. And some, who turned out to be innocent are being let go from DNA evidence. So yes, HB, Justice would probably better be served on board a US ship. But then THAT was the other thing we negotiated for in the VFA: JURISDICTION.<BR/><BR/>Still, if the Justice system could do a good job, it would go a long way...Deany Bocobohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01443168826029321831noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14974164.post-1139650737930931082006-02-11T17:38:00.000+08:002006-02-11T17:38:00.000+08:00DJB,I've been batting for a US court martial of th...DJB,<BR/><BR/>I've been batting for a US court martial of the 4 accused - held aboard a US ship on Philippine waters if necessary - because I have faith in the US military justice system (and in western military justice systems altogether), perhaps more than I have in a civilian justice system. <BR/><BR/>I do believe that a court martial would give both the accused and the victim a venue for a fair trial.HILLBLOGGERhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05977843513566589811noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14974164.post-1139646800997177192006-02-11T16:33:00.000+08:002006-02-11T16:33:00.000+08:00Remember there are four men accused. The possibili...Remember there are four men accused. The possibilities range from all guilty as charged to all acquitted. What are the chances of either extreme? Hard to say of course because no one knows what really happened that Holloween night. <BR/><BR/>But that is what Justice is all about. The tenor of the judge has been reassuring to me and the pace of the proceedings is quick by Philippine standards. <BR/><BR/>I think as long as the judgment is credible based on the testimony and trial evidence, everyone HAS to accept the results, no matter what. <BR/><BR/>But like I said, nothing would deflate the lynch mobs faster than the US making certain symbolic moves to demonstrate that it is after Justice too. The whole anti VFA movement rests on the claim that everything the US does is to get the guilty rapists off scott free. You and I know that isn't true, but here the propagandists have many people convinced it is.Deany Bocobohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01443168826029321831noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14974164.post-1139631289415362592006-02-11T12:14:00.000+08:002006-02-11T12:14:00.000+08:00AP--Believe it or not I believe they stand a good ...AP--Believe it or not I believe they stand a good chance of a fair trial. For one thing they've got good local lawyers whose only agenda is to defend them. The other side has to prosecute them AND deal with "all of the rehetoric that has taken place." Like all high profile cases, even in America, part of the adversarial aspect of "doing Justice" involves various inequalities, strategies and conditions that can never be purified. <BR/><BR/>What's missing is the US govt and military being able to do more to convince everyone that we are all on the same side of trying to do Justice without trying to do harm to other things.<BR/><BR/>Where would the court martial investigations or other internal us military inquiries be, do you think?Deany Bocobohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01443168826029321831noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14974164.post-1139591258833267432006-02-11T01:07:00.000+08:002006-02-11T01:07:00.000+08:00DJB,Heh!Whaddyaknow! You've convinced me! Yeah, le...DJB,<BR/><BR/>Heh!<BR/><BR/>Whaddyaknow! You've convinced me! <BR/><BR/>Yeah, let's call it justice!HILLBLOGGERhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05977843513566589811noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14974164.post-1139588008108000142006-02-11T00:13:00.000+08:002006-02-11T00:13:00.000+08:00You're normally more convincing than this. But why...You're normally more convincing than this. But why a nation's sovereignty is besmirched by this arrangement escapes me still. Custody will be granted once conviction is achieved in Court. What is sought by not giving custody before conviction is to spare the accused from punishments NOT contemplated even for convicted rapists. It would be an injustice to deliver them up to Philippine custody knowing what they would face. Unless of course you want the Philippines to set up a separate facility just for them. But would such a facility house the larger Bruised Ego that is actually what seeks satisfaction, would it satisfy the Lynch Mobs. And what would happen if, unable to secure them, one were killed or beaten up. What would that do to justice in the rape case. Again, convince me if you have a stronger principle than: Justice.Deany Bocobohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01443168826029321831noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14974164.post-1139587355335006852006-02-11T00:02:00.000+08:002006-02-11T00:02:00.000+08:00Simple DJB, the accused are accused of having comm...Simple DJB, the accused are accused of having committed a crime on Philippine soil and Philippine authorities could demand custody.<BR/><BR/>Now, whether they can make their 'custody' plea work is another thing.<BR/><BR/>It's all a question of MORAL, LEGAL PRINCIPLES that any SOVEREIGN, independent nation should aspire to fight for.<BR/><BR/>We could go on and on but one thing I can tell you one thing, I am not batting for the Philippines to claim custody of the accused based on time-honored principle of liberty, equality, fraternity... I believe the Philippines is still a trillion miles away from the French state principle of EGALITE, LIBERTE, FRATERNITE. (Just look around Gloria and her cabinet, do you honestly think they even heard of that?)<BR/><BR/>Would be like asking cave men to use elctricity for cooking rice.HILLBLOGGERhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05977843513566589811noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14974164.post-1139582284188774052006-02-10T22:38:00.000+08:002006-02-10T22:38:00.000+08:00HB,I'm all for principles. But what exactly is the...HB,<BR/>I'm all for principles. But what exactly is the principle we should fight for? Me I am a natural born dual citizen of both countries. My loyalties CAN'T be divided. It's all human beings to me. Humanity being the permanent condition for the foreseeable future. Whereas nationshood, I aver, is a phase, like teenagehood.<BR/><BR/>Still my mind is open. What principle should we fight for in this case? <BR/><BR/>Equality? Liberty? Fraternity? <BR/><BR/>What reason do we give for DEMANDING physical custody?Deany Bocobohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01443168826029321831noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14974164.post-1139578120504091632006-02-10T21:28:00.000+08:002006-02-10T21:28:00.000+08:00Now, HB, you need to clarify "We certainly have th...Now, HB, you need to clarify "We certainly have the right to terminate and renegotiate."<BR/><BR/>From what I've gathered, you are a US citizen just like me; shall "We" speak from a US citizen's point of view or from "We, Filipinos"' point of view.<BR/><BR/>Heh!<BR/><BR/>Either way, there's such a thing as PRINCIPLES and that's what I was thinking of when I said the Philippine Senate could try to re-negotiate the terms as in the Philippines having custody over the accused.<BR/><BR/>However, up to 'em senators to fight for their principles!HILLBLOGGERhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05977843513566589811noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14974164.post-1139576737451623652006-02-10T21:05:00.000+08:002006-02-10T21:05:00.000+08:00HB, We certainly have the right to terminate and r...HB, We certainly have the right to terminate and renegotiate. But what provision would you change. Would you insist on physical custody then? What are the advantages to the PHilippines when it only costs money to feed and maintain in this case 4 big burly Americanos? Why would the US agree to such a thing? What are the principles involved in making such a new demand?Deany Bocobohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01443168826029321831noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14974164.post-1139575650381826132006-02-10T20:47:00.000+08:002006-02-10T20:47:00.000+08:00Hello DJB,I think you can call Uncle Sam any name ...Hello DJB,<BR/><BR/>I think you can call Uncle Sam any name but "shy".<BR/><BR/>And while I believe that "shy" Uncle Sam had the right to invoke the terms of the VFA to protect their servicemen from the squalor of our prisons, the Philippine Senate, equally has the right to re-negotiate the terms and if they are lucky, they just might keep "shy" Uncle Sam's troops on the Philippine soil to play with our AFP when in the course of the re-negotiating the terms, "shy" Uncle Sam growls and tells them to "Shut up!" <BR/><BR/>I do believe it is silly to do away with VFA (all civilized countries have defence treatises of some kind with their allies) but our 'brilliant' senators led by 'brilliant' (but furiously mad) Miriam could always try to re-negotiate its terms.HILLBLOGGERhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05977843513566589811noreply@blogger.com