tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14974164.post113172585929817066..comments2023-10-20T21:46:49.945+08:00Comments on Philippine Commentary: Visiting Forces AggrievementDeany Bocobohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01443168826029321831noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14974164.post-1132273047556680432005-11-18T08:17:00.000+08:002005-11-18T08:17:00.000+08:00Maybe that is why the blog owner also controls the...Maybe that is why the blog owner also controls the DELETE button. I hope I never have to use that here because even "trash comments" are revealing of the person sending them. As a student of human nature, all raw data is useful to me, though I wont lose sleep over them knowing I can incinerate anything "over the line" since the blog owner must consider the feeling of other visitors too. Thanks.Deany Bocobohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01443168826029321831noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14974164.post-1132035277842604522005-11-15T14:14:00.000+08:002005-11-15T14:14:00.000+08:00Thanks American Painter. Your thoughts and sentime...Thanks American Painter. <BR/>Your thoughts and sentiments would meet with general agreement from the overwhelming majority of Americans and Filipinos, I would say. It is that consensus about many things that some try very hard to deny exists because they want these two old friends and allies divided. They are afraid of what would happen if the Filipinos and Americans really do start acting like allies again, as with the British and Aussies. Thank you for helping to build upon that rock of common sense, the mutual understanding we need to meet the future united. I want Filipinos to proudly take their place in the Anglosphere to which we undoubtedly, and irreversibly belong, in our eighty millions strong, both here and in America.Deany Bocobohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01443168826029321831noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14974164.post-1132011730931243512005-11-15T07:42:00.000+08:002005-11-15T07:42:00.000+08:00Welcome TROSP! It's a humble start, but as you can...Welcome TROSP! It's a humble start, but as you can see I have great friends and now the potential of one more.Deany Bocobohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01443168826029321831noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14974164.post-1132011584711774102005-11-15T07:39:00.000+08:002005-11-15T07:39:00.000+08:00SASSY: You are RIGHT. I was WRONG to say you defen...SASSY: You are RIGHT. I was WRONG to say you defended the rights of the Greenpeace activists to commit criminal tresspass. I APOLOGIZE for the rash judgment. I shall say so again when I write a follow-up. I hope you will continue to provide the legal AND moral muscle we need.Deany Bocobohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01443168826029321831noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14974164.post-1131978541945818932005-11-14T22:29:00.000+08:002005-11-14T22:29:00.000+08:00I defended the Greenpeace activists?? LOL Either y...I defended the Greenpeace activists?? LOL Either you neglected to click the <I>Read full text</I> link when you saw my entry in the index page or you're intentionally misreading meanings in my entry that weren't there.<BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://houseonahill.net/index.php/blog/permalink/the-greenpeace-masinloc-protest-rally/" REL="nofollow">The full text is <B>here</B></A>.Sassy Lawyerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10217241296299367050noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14974164.post-1131868138782257922005-11-13T15:48:00.000+08:002005-11-13T15:48:00.000+08:00Thank you, Manuel Bunecamino. I am forced to make...Thank you, Manuel Bunecamino. I am forced to make an admission: I don't have a nice pat answer to your question: how do we balance agreements like the VFA. The VFA after all, is a mere piece of paper with a bunch of provisions that may or may not lead to acceptable settlements to all parties in all situations. <BR/><BR/>It is impossible to DEMAND a document that is so perfect that it can render perfect justice in all cases (such as the Consitution JDV-GMA-FVR are cooking up). The claim that the VFA is flawed is probably true, but is it so onerous as to be unacceptable? <BR/><BR/>Probably not, so maybe the answer to your question is a method of successive approximation. The two parties that negotiated and made the agreement, we must assume, got it say, 80% right. Given the present circumstances and our relative position of strength even among the US public on this possibly heinous crime, we should now use every ounce of legal genium to take that 80% and push it up to 90% (it won't ever get to 100%). (You could argue with the fractions some, but I hope that pushes this discussion forward).<BR/><BR/>Most of all, we have to assume that as allies, the US is just as concerned about the impact of this on their own national interest--the war on terror--just as it is with the Philippines. That after all is what the VFA is all about for the US, as it should be for the Philippines.<BR/><BR/>The US wont surrender custory of its citizens in the meantime the case is being adjudicated, perhaps because the US legitimately and humanely wants to shield its citizens from the barbaric conditions in Philippines jails even before they are found guilty in a court of law. Though everyone who falls n Philippine jurisdiction is exposed to those barbaric conditions, those barbaric conditions ARE NOT in the Revised Penal Code as part of the punishment for heinous crimes, which is properly limited to lethal injection or hanging until dead. How do we know for example that ALL six raped the girl? Maybe one of them didn't and could tell the truth but is being threatened. Remember the old saying we will give liberty to ten guilty men rather than wronfully deprive an innocent man of his. <BR/><BR/>I think in fact, not you Mr. B., but some people want precisely that to happen that they get a taste of Philippine jails even b4 they are tried and convicted. That's intellectually indecent.<BR/><BR/>As to "what does the girl get in the meantime?" there is where it truly gets cruel and tragic, because unfortunately she is in the Filipino side of the agreement and is therefore the one who IS exposed to the barbaric conditions in the Philippines. Like all victims she gets the shortest end of the stick, whether we do nothing or scrap the VFA. <BR/><BR/>I think she has a better chance testifying in the upcoming US Military investigations into this matter. She stands a better chance of convicting them there. But of course certain Filipinos won't let her since she is far more valuable as a victim to them than someone who might prove that allies can exercise together for against a common threat AND render justice. That would prove that both the alliance and democracy work. They don't want that and they don't really want justice for the victim.<BR/><BR/>That's my best attempt at MB's really tough but valuable questions!Deany Bocobohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01443168826029321831noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14974164.post-1131814475202839922005-11-13T00:54:00.000+08:002005-11-13T00:54:00.000+08:00Good questions and comments all. Sorry lang for th...Good questions and comments all. Sorry lang for the late responses here. Been out with "Mrs. Commentary" Can't blog against her!<BR/><BR/>But she did think of something brilliant I want to share with you: <BR/><BR/>IF THE VFA WERE SCRAPPED TODAY, THESE SIX RAPISTS WOULD GO SCOT FREE BECAUSE THE PROCESS WOULD BE ABROGATED TOO.<BR/><BR/>MB: Thanks for the questions, which have to do with the proposition that the VFA as it stands is flawed and stacked against the Philippines. (though I doubt that they are SO flawed that alleged rapists actually have "diplomatic immunity"...they'd be in Hawaii by now, if that were true, not sweating bricks in Manila and trying to figure out how to explain this all to the folks back home.) <BR/><BR/>Now as Prof. Lacierda just pointed out, we are partly responsible for negotiating and signing the VFA. <BR/><BR/>But, let me grant MB's point because I think it is probably true! VFA IS FLAWED and it IS stacked against the Filipinos even in cases like this. That's what Sassy was trying to say.<BR/><BR/>Given the VFA is flawed, I think the proper response among ALLIES is to now improve the agreement and bring it into "parity" as you say, using precisely what happens in this case. The US military actually has some very strict rules and I've read on Guanzon's site that they are being investigated separately by their unit, maybe because the miitary realizes this really does endanger their mission here or at least compromises it. That investigation will produce a report that the Philippines can use to clobber the State Dept with and get better terms. The Americans are big boys, they will listen to reason if it is couched in terms of our MUTUAL INTERESTS and not the agenda of those whose ideological profession is to oppose the US at all costs. They've a right to that, but we have need not oblige their ambitions.<BR/><BR/>"SCRAP the VFA" is clearly going too far--way too far--which was why I was so hard on Rina and Sassy. It is a simple case of throwing out the baby with the bathwater, but in this case it is because they really never wanted the baby to begin with. That is still a legitimate political position: to be against the cooperating with our allies. But it is intellectually dishonest, IMO, to use the emotionalism and natural rage of people in this case in order to attain that legitimate end. <BR/><BR/>That end, while legitimate, cannot be justified by demagogic means.<BR/><BR/>But I don't want to sound like a cold analytical fish who doesn't care about the suffering of the victim and the fact that the Kano are kind of like what happens when rich kids from Ayala Alabang or Valle Verde are caught in sensational crimes like rape or carnapping. They get the best lawyers and the benefit of the doubt and the protection of their families. It's maddening. coz you know that they probably will get away with it or have as someone said, Erap-style jail cells. <BR/>But you cannot then ban rich kids from going near cars just because some of them might steal one.<BR/><BR/>I guess the other way to attack it is, WHAT SHOULD WE DO ABOUT TOURISTS? I don't have the stats, but I am sure lots of Filipinas are raped, gypped, betrayed or even mugged by foreign tourists. Should we then also abrogate all the treaties we have signed with allies on tourists?<BR/><BR/>Any way you look at it "scrap the vfa" is a suggestion aimed not at solving this rape case per se but rescuing victory from defeat.<BR/><BR/>Finally consider what WOULD happen if we scrapped the VFA. Then all bets would really be off on the six accused because there would be no framework for handling the case.<BR/><BR/>Besideus SCRAP THE VFA===THE RAPISTS GO FREE di ba?<BR/><BR/>Hey anno ni mus...I like your name.Deany Bocobohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01443168826029321831noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14974164.post-1131807021852760512005-11-12T22:50:00.000+08:002005-11-12T22:50:00.000+08:00DJB,I am in agreement with your thesis that variou...DJB,<BR/><BR/>I am in agreement with your thesis that various comments suggest throwing the baby out with the bath.<BR/><BR/>People tend to think that just because the US is the remaining super power capable of extending its hegemony everywhere, they must be stopped. I dont blame the Americans if the agreement appears to be one-sided. It's their job to max out all the benefits that they can secure. Heck, that ought to be the role of any negotiator for that matter.<BR/><BR/>What is deplorable is the conduct of the Filipino negotiators who do not seem to have the interests of our country in mind. <BR/><BR/>A simple thing like criminal jurisdiction having a life span of one year is utterly ridiculous. The Filipinos already abdicated custody, they further abbreviated jurisdiction to one year.<BR/><BR/>Like you said, I dont resent the Americans but what I mind is the spineless attitude of our negotiators and now, the palace announcement of letting them go back to Okinawa and then retracting that statement.<BR/><BR/>Did we make balimbing our national fruit already?Edwin Lacierdahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02498998943215285752noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14974164.post-1131788167742918392005-11-12T17:36:00.000+08:002005-11-12T17:36:00.000+08:00Welcome MB!But you usually have more to say than t...Welcome MB!<BR/>But you usually have more to say than that. I can take anything. I'm a sport. What is on your mind? Tell me so I can understand. I learn the most from those who disagree with me.Deany Bocobohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01443168826029321831noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14974164.post-1131771869500120892005-11-12T13:04:00.000+08:002005-11-12T13:04:00.000+08:00Hi Tito boy, Hope you feel better now, okay?Peace!...Hi Tito boy, <BR/>Hope you feel better now, okay?<BR/>Peace!Deany Bocobohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01443168826029321831noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14974164.post-1131755374531054972005-11-12T08:29:00.000+08:002005-11-12T08:29:00.000+08:00A warm welcome folks! It's bright but hazy in Mani...A warm welcome folks! It's bright but hazy in Manila this morning, so I cannot see Talim Island far to the East, where I usually espy two men in the water.<BR/><BR/>I apologize for the inconvenience to some visitors who do not have <A HREF="www.blogger.com" REL="nofollow">BLOGGER</A> accounts but want to join the comment thread. I'm forced to select this option because of the plague of splogs. <BR/><BR/>But it's actually faster to become a BLOGGER than other systems cycle of register-wait4email-goback, because there's no wait4email loop. I guarantee it: you could be ranting at my idiotic *^&%$-Philippine Commentaries within one minute of going to www dot blogger dot com.<BR/><BR/>To WordPress fans:::don't worry I hear Rizalist is on the job and getting ready to launch a blog from the Nineteenth Century. You heard it here first...Deany Bocobohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01443168826029321831noreply@blogger.com